Author Topic: Owning an airplane  (Read 6213 times)

Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2011, 11:39:31 PM »


Heres one my mom took last night. I couldnt get it to work earlier
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Offline saggs

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2011, 01:05:28 AM »
Boat stands for Break Out Another Thousand. What does plane stand for? Is it the same kind of expense?


More. 

Avgas $5 a gallon or more.  Annual inspection $4K +.  TSO'ed parts =$$$$$$

Like others have mentioned the "cheap" route is the experimental homebuilt way.  Cheaper parts, and do your own A&P work.

Offline Wolfala

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 01:05:44 AM »
Boat stands for Break Out Another Thousand. What does plane stand for? Is it the same kind of expense?



$1000 = 1 AMU (Aviation Monetary Unit)

Yea, it's pocket change at that point


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline colmbo

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2011, 01:27:20 AM »
More. 

 Annual inspection $4K +. 

That's kind of high for a maintained airplane unless you have something that's very complex/unique.  My 182 annualed for less than $1k a year AFTER I had it up to par -- those first couple of annuals were $5-6K (got to buy a prop the first year).

You can do your own maintenance on any airplane, you just have to be supervised by an A&P.   You do have to do the work according to Part 43 (I think it's 43, been a while) so there is a bit of a learning curve (read expense).

Folks use to ask if owning my airplane was "cost effective".  I'd laugh.  It was fun, we enjoyed the heck out of it.  It was worth it to me, wasn't concerned about how logical or feasible it was.  I got to land in places like this:



And go places like in these photos:  http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Ping

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2011, 04:02:36 AM »
Nice pics colmbo.

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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2011, 06:47:08 AM »
Von, the plane spent most of it's life at a 5500 foot high grass strip in Utah, that's why there is a STOL kit on it. It's comprised of drooped wing tips, drooped leading edge, and "fences" on the top of the wing, to keep stalled air off of the ailerons. It also handles much better in slow flight.

The takeoff roll seems to be about 200 feet shorter than the 172 I'm used to flying (It also has an 0360, so the STOL kit definitely helps)

With an 0360, I'll need 200-500 ft. of roll  :devil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux3Uu2JfXVg

I'd love to see some pics  :aok
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2011, 06:52:48 AM »
That's kind of high for a maintained airplane unless you have something that's very complex/unique.  My 182 annualed for less than $1k a year AFTER I had it up to par -- those first couple of annuals were $5-6K (got to buy a prop the first year).

You can do your own maintenance on any airplane, you just have to be supervised by an A&P.   You do have to do the work according to Part 43 (I think it's 43, been a while) so there is a bit of a learning curve (read expense).

Folks use to ask if owning my airplane was "cost effective".  I'd laugh.  It was fun, we enjoyed the heck out of it.  It was worth it to me, wasn't concerned about how logical or feasible it was.  I got to land in places like this:

(Image removed from quote.)

And go places like in these photos:  http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html


There are a few Bearhawks in Alaska. 

My favorite is built by Dan Shilling with a Subaru engine  :rock

http://wn.com/alaskabearhawk
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Offline Wolfala

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2011, 08:42:41 AM »
That's kind of high for a maintained airplane unless you have something that's very complex/unique.  My 182 annualed for less than $1k a year AFTER I had it up to par -- those first couple of annuals were $5-6K (got to buy a prop the first year).

You can do your own maintenance on any airplane, you just have to be supervised by an A&P.   You do have to do the work according to Part 43 (I think it's 43, been a while) so there is a bit of a learning curve (read expense).

Folks use to ask if owning my airplane was "cost effective".  I'd laugh.  It was fun, we enjoyed the heck out of it.  It was worth it to me, wasn't concerned about how logical or feasible it was.  I got to land in places like this:

(Image removed from quote.)

And go places like in these photos:  http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html


I have a Cirrus SR-20 and do about 500 hours per year. I made the mistake of keeping track of the actual expenses. So since 06, the first year maintenance 06-07 I saw at around $12,000 - not all at once. Just little stuff spread out a lot. JPI-700 install, occasional exhaust valve that went, a lot of little stuff. Second year, was not so lucky. Had a leanfuel servo condition on takeoff and the top-end got trashed. That was in Jan of 07, and around $10,000 right there.  Then the HSI went, throw in another $2500, alternator overhaul (which wasn't bad, $200 I think), Vacuum pump - etc. 07 came out to around $18,000. 08 luck was with me a bit more - think I got away with around $5,000. 09 was a mixed bag - all the window seals went bad and were leaking water - lotta labor, around $4500 and Lexan is expensive. Had 2 stuck valves at $2000 and and change, a double wheel blow out on landing at Lincoln Park NJ courtesy of Good-years piece of toejam tubes for around $600. Michillian leak stops only now. End of 09 - we went through a Canada Goose and took it in the engine, which had second order effects of the windshield, antennas and a bunch of composite work. That ran us into 2010, engine repair with a cracked rod was around $10,000, prop got a sudden stop inspection along with the mags and accessories. Shops bill separate from the engine was around $14,000. Annual was only $2,000 though - that was the amount just in April by the time the plane was out of hack. The rest of the year, thankfully was uneventful - just your usual wear items, brake pads, a nose tire, a couple of rebound bumpers and landing gear pucks. Haven't totaled it up yet, but I might've minus the insurance work hit maybe $6,000 at the outside. This year I am looking at, a parachute and rocket replacement for around $12,000 (though BRS is working on a PMA replacement for $3800 all in), overhauled the alternator last week when a diode went for $120, brake pads, tire change from Desser maybe in 100 hours with monster retreads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4qS_V_naM4



the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline colmbo

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2011, 09:06:18 AM »
I have a Cirrus SR-20 <snipped>


Wow.  In 9 years of flying my 182 I had 2 failures...the master contactor (relay) quit working in Great Falls, Montana. (Was lucky for us, we had to spend the night, found a motel with a Dairy Queen right next door -- at that time there were no DQs in Alaska and we were in serious withdrawal  :D).  The 2nd was something small on the mag -- condensor I think.

I did replace the engine the second year I had it, but I don't count added stuff as part of an annual since it's an "elective" thing.  And I added a lot of stuff.  Extended baggage area, changed to a dry battery and moved it to the firewall, Cessna 402 nosefork with 7.00 tire, 8.00 on the mains with Cleveland brakes, BAS shoulder harness system, Atlee Dodge folding/removable rear seats, EI Engine monitor, fuel flow monitor and Tachometer.   Ah, the good old days.
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Wolfala

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 10:27:16 AM »
Wow.  In 9 years of flying my 182 I had 2 failures...the master contactor (relay) quit working in Great Falls, Montana. (Was lucky for us, we had to spend the night, found a motel with a Dairy Queen right next door -- at that time there were no DQs in Alaska and we were in serious withdrawal  :D).  The 2nd was something small on the mag -- condensor I think.

I did replace the engine the second year I had it, but I don't count added stuff as part of an annual since it's an "elective" thing.  And I added a lot of stuff.  Extended baggage area, changed to a dry battery and moved it to the firewall, Cessna 402 nosefork with 7.00 tire, 8.00 on the mains with Cleveland brakes, BAS shoulder harness system, Atlee Dodge folding/removable rear seats, EI Engine monitor, fuel flow monitor and Tachometer.   Ah, the good old days.



Don't get me wrong, it's been a very reliable aircraft. I've had to cancel 2 flights for a mechanical - I was a bad master switch that I changed out from arco electric.  The other time I was AOG was when the alternator went 1200 hours ago. Everything else was minor or some huge outside event. A valve going - that's a toejam happens event. A goose - an insurance toejam happens event. Blown tubes - same.

It's a working aircraft, so it has to work. I run things to failure. I minimize the maintenance induced failures. It might've had a charmed life before it met me being hangared at 100 hours a year, but no such life with me.

My engine is well past tbo, run exclusively lean of peak in all phases besides takeoff - no signs of heat distress or cylinder metallurgy. Bore scopes clean. Oil analysis has 1/10th the wear from when I got it. friend of mine running a big bore 550 is up to 3300 TTIS and just topped at 2300 bc of a stuck oil control ring. Light hone back back on.

It's not how hard you run yr equipment, it's how you run it hard.


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2011, 10:30:01 AM »
Commencing pic dump


Our emergency landing area if we lost the engine when we were near Telluride



Telluride Colorado, when we landed the density altitude was 113

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Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2011, 10:35:38 AM »
A big arse mountain around salt lake city. We were at 110 when I took this picture


This is the roswell boneyard, everything from MD80s to 747s


Canyon Lake! Close to home!



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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 11:54:01 AM »
Amazing what the flood did a few years back when it overran the spillway. Made a whole new canyon.

I have not kayaked from the dam down since that flood. The sat pics are amazing though.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2011, 12:05:14 PM »
Airplane costs are one of those things like asking how high is up. I had a 59 Piper Comanche for more than a decade. The annual costs were minimal really. I don;t think I ever topped $2000 for one but then again I really didn't have much in the way of failures. I did buy a new prop one year but that was to avoid an inspection AD on the old one that was all but an overhaul every other year. When you have a constant speed prop that can get expensive. The new prop cost me $7k but I sold the old one to a guy in Australia for $5k. There was nothing wrong with the prop so he got a good deal and my new scimitar tri blade ended up costing me $2k.

I figured out at the time that between the insurance coverage, shade port rent and registration that the bird cost me $2k not including maintenance even if I never turned the key on it at all. It was fulfilling my childhood dream so it was worth it to me and I could afford it at the time. It was a bitter sweet day when I sold her. Missy flew beautifully on the demo flight and her new owner was impressed.

I did my own maintenance under supervision. It actually wasn't terribly hard to do, just long hours and a lot of time spent on details. The retract gear added some additional time and expense. It had bungee cords as well as electrical motive gear. The bungee was really the force that kept it up tight or down and locked rather than the gear mechanism. It had a 3 year life span. Changing it could get "interesting" because of the tension on it and you had to do half of it "blind" one handed inside the wing. It's hard to start a bolt then insert a small cotter pin in a small hole at arms length with your arm bent backwards stuck in a 5" wide hole in the wing. Since it was based in Marana AZ. I also had to spray to get the black widows out of the wing area before working on it.

The plane also had an annoying habit of breaking something if it felt I was not paying enough attention to it. Nothing really bad, just more $ and time in the shop hanger. One year on the flight home from the location of the annual (Tucson TUS) the gear, which had been exercised several times during the annual, decided to play a trick on me. Right after take off it refused to retract all the way and stuck exactly half way up. Then  it refused to extend. A bit of a bother there. I got to use the manual extension for real for the first time. Fortunately my son was in the bird and helped push it down. It seems a small wire came loose from a sensor switch and the gear stopped. I did make a nice smooth landing right back where I took off from though.

Eventually the plane work was extensive enough that my IA actually hired me to work for him when I was between jobs after retiring from the City. I enjoyed it and light planes are pretty simple machines for the most part. It is a thrill to take the first engine you overhauled up for it's first break in period. You keep trying to go over the overhaul in your mind to see if you might just have forgotten something.  :pray Then it becomes tedious hours boring a hole in the sky in a circular pattern waiting for the rings to seat, the cylinder temp and the oil temp to drop. It took 5 hours in the 172. It ran very strong and extremely smooth.

When 9/11 happened our business went away because everything was grounded so I went back to school, got my 3rd college degree and an A&P from Cochise College. Then I went back and worked for him again for another 2 years until the wife finally retired and we hit the road full time.
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2011, 12:10:13 PM »



It's not how hard you run yr equipment, it's how you run it hard.

I agree completely.  You hear guys all the time talk about "shock cooling" and how "bad" it is, yet that same guy will take his Belchfire 400 out of the hangar, start it up and taxi right away out and do a runup then shove the throttle in for take off.  IMO there is more thermal damage done on power up than reducing power.  My airplane didn't move from parking until the oil temp was up to 100 degrees F and all power changes (throttle or prop) were done smoothly.

Are you using your airplane for transportation?
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"