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Author Topic: Owning an airplane  (Read 6148 times)

Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2011, 07:59:59 PM »
O300
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2011, 08:11:34 PM »
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2011, 10:01:53 PM »
I'm considering buying a canopy cover for the airplane, and also some intake plugs, because I have heard horror stories about small woodland creatures making a home for themselves in your nice, warm engine cowl.


Here is the one Im considering, and I am just wondering if anyone has one?

http://planecover.com/C_172/172_page.htm
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2011, 10:07:44 PM »
Quote from: Tupac on April 19, 2011, 02:38:05 PM
Mav, how difficult are owner assisted annuals? I'm mechanically inclined. I guess what I mean is how much $ does it save me?

That's another how far is up question.  :)

The best answer I can give you is, it depends. The factors are how adept the owner is at mechanical items. How willing is the IA to do an owner assisted annual. What kind of facilities are there. How willing is the owner to get dirty, because they WILL get dirty. How much the IA has to watch you since he bills by the hour. It could save you as much as 50% or more. By the second annual I did the cost was minimal for me. I got billed for the inspection only, not the prep or reassembly. Repairs were extra and when I got my A&P I ended up signing off the repairs myself.

Frankly as long as there aren't squawks, problems, most of the job for the owner is simply opening up the plane for inspection. Taking out the interior seats and carpeting then opening up just about every inspection panel there is in the bird. In addition to that is cleaning up the engine compartment, degreasing it as well as servicing the engine. That means checking compression, a 2 person job, as well as oil / filter change, fuel filter or screen cleaning, mag checks, timing check, prop dressing and so on.

If there are squawks the IA may let the owner do the repair if it is a simple remove and replace of a part he might. Then again since he has to sign the log book he might not either.

I suggest you have a screw driver drill with a torque clutch because there are a LOT of screws. You will also need to learn to do safety wiring if he lets you do that. It's not hard but good wiring takes practice.

I enjoy working on all of my vehicles. I like to know how they work and what makes them work. It made me a better pilot and my IA never had to worry about me bringing in the bird with a complaint about a mysterious noise. I could respect the work that went into making the plane and how it all works. I also developed a deep seated contempt for Cessna engineers. They obviously never worked on their aircraft. It should never take 2 mechanics to replace a single bolt and cotter pin in a Cessna 337 nose gear but it does. One to insert the bolt apply torque while the other fits the nut then places the cotter pin in the hole afterwards. It takes the both of you to bend the pin because one has to hold it in place while the other bends the pin. One on the rear of the gear and the other on the other side of the nose gear to bend the pin. Both are done blind at almost arms length because you can't see the damn thing and you can't reach each end of the pin from one spot.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 10:11:36 PM by Maverick »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2011, 10:16:49 PM »
Quote from: Tupac on April 19, 2011, 10:01:53 PM
I'm considering buying a canopy cover for the airplane, and also some intake plugs, because I have heard horror stories about small woodland creatures making a home for themselves in your nice, warm engine cowl.


Here is the one Im considering, and I am just wondering if anyone has one?

http://planecover.com/C_172/172_page.htm

Covers can trap dust and grit under them and when the wind makes the cover move it scratches the finish and or windshield. Plugs in the exhaust can also trap moisture in the plane adding to corrosion issues. It's a darned if you do and darned if you don't kind of thing. A good shade port helps if you do not have a hanger. Keeping nesting birds out of the plane can be a challenge. Most go in the front of the cowl so cowl plugs without sealing the bottom will help. Watch out for nesting birds sneaking into the aileron openings too. DAMHIK.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2011, 10:31:59 PM »
Quote from: Maverick on April 19, 2011, 10:16:49 PM
Covers can trap dust and grit under them and when the wind makes the cover move it scratches the finish and or windshield. Plugs in the exhaust can also trap moisture in the plane adding to corrosion issues. It's a darned if you do and darned if you don't kind of thing. A good shade port helps if you do not have a hanger. Keeping nesting birds out of the plane can be a challenge. Most go in the front of the cowl so cowl plugs without sealing the bottom will help. Watch out for nesting birds sneaking into the aileron openings too. DAMHIK.

If I keep the plane clean and the grit to a minimum, will the cover scratch it as badly? I'm not looking at getting exhaust plugs, just a couple to plug up the cowl (like you said)
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2011, 10:32:27 PM »
Quote from: Tupac on April 19, 2011, 02:38:05 PM
Mav, how difficult are owner assisted annuals? I'm mechanically inclined. I guess what I mean is how much $ does it save me?

What's the going shop rate in your area?  I think it's $90 an hour here.  If you do the grunt work yourself you won't be paying some guy $90 and hour to remove inspection panels, pull the carpet out, take the cowling off, etc.  
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Offline flight17

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2011, 10:32:59 PM »
Our C-123K is in for its annual and we were pulling nests out of the wings.

one of the guys said that they had flown down to Andrews AFB for the airshow once and when they got there, they heard chirping coming from in the wings. Here there was a nest that was full of baby chicks in the wing. Its amazing how they get into the darnest places and those nests stay in place. I mean, those chicks didnt even fall out of the nest when we did the assult landing!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 10:35:16 PM by flight17 »
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2011, 10:38:03 PM »
Quote from: Tupac on April 19, 2011, 10:31:59 PM
If I keep the plane clean and the grit to a minimum, will the cover scratch it as badly? I'm not looking at getting exhaust plugs, just a couple to plug up the cowl (like you said)

I had a custom cover for the 182.  It was ok...but far from great.  Mine was lined with soft cloth where it was in contact with the windshield or windows, but if a bunch of grit/dust blows under the cover you're still abrading the plexiglass -- windshields are expensive and time consuming to replace.

I also had some reflective panels that I put inside the windshield in warm weather -- it does wonders keeping the temps down inside the cabin.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2011, 10:40:34 PM »
Quote from: colmbo on April 19, 2011, 10:32:27 PM
What's the going shop rate in your area?  I think it's $90 an hour here.  If you do the grunt work yourself you won't be paying some guy $90 and hour to remove inspection panels, pull the carpet out, take the cowling off, etc.  

$65 an hour. I can take the cowling off, and pull out the carpet. What's a good amount of time to change the oil? I've heard 30-50 hours depending on who I ask.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2011, 10:56:00 PM »
Tupac,

You live in a dry dusty location and the wind does blow. Covers will trap stuff underneath them. I used to have a cover over the windows and windshield. They got scratched up under the cover. It was easier to just wash the glass before flight.

Oil changes can be determined by oil analysis. If not by that then you can use 30 or 50 hours of use. If you have a real oil filter instead of screens 50 hours. Without proper filtering change it more frequently. Oil ain't cheap. A good filter makes it last longer. Oil analysis will let you change the oil depending on it's real condition and IMO is the best bet. A series of oil analysis will give you a good heads up on wear conditions inside the engine too.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2011, 11:00:44 PM »
I live in a humid subtropical environment, there isnt much dust.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2011, 11:18:18 PM »
Then I guess you know everything already.

All that stuff that blew onto my RV and vehicles must have just magically apeared when I visit the area each year.
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Offline Wolfala

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2011, 11:24:14 PM »
Quote from: Maverick on April 19, 2011, 10:56:00 PM
Tupac,

You live in a dry dusty location and the wind does blow. Covers will trap stuff underneath them. I used to have a cover over the windows and windshield. They got scratched up under the cover. It was easier to just wash the glass before flight.

Oil changes can be determined by oil analysis. If not by that then you can use 30 or 50 hours of use. If you have a real oil filter instead of screens 50 hours. Without proper filtering change it more frequently. Oil ain't cheap. A good filter makes it last longer. Oil analysis will let you change the oil depending on it's real condition and IMO is the best bet. A series of oil analysis will give you a good heads up on wear conditions inside the engine too.


Violently agreeing with Mav on this one.

Attached is my oil analysis for the last, 1700 or so hours:  http://db.tt/Q9hnmuC

How you run the engine directly impacts its longevity. In the beginning it was all Rich of Peak. And we were going through tons of valve and heat related issues. Then switching over to lean of peak - valve issues went away, as did the heat. Then LOP with Camguard oil additive. My analysis is actually in this months Aviation Consumer http://www.aviationconsumer.com/issues/41_14/industrynews/6113-1.html  They could've chosen better ones to use, thinking Mike Busch's or a fleet example, but oh well.  

Get on a soap program - take the samples at every change in the same way, *say 7 seconds after u start draining. Borescope the cylinders every 100 hours to get a peak at the valve faces. Look for oil on the belly to see how much you are blowing out the breather.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - GET A MULTIPOINT ENGINE MONITOR INSTALLED IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE.   A JPI-700 is the standard - have a USB port on it and download the data and learn how to interpret what your equipment is telling you. If you fly a lot - you will notice subtle changes.

Most important, don't be afraid to ask questions here. Most of us have been owners for years, DOM's, IA's, and as you can see - there's a ton we don't know and learn from each other. Make all your annuals owner assist - hell all your maintenance should be owner assist if its not under preventive maintenance covered by Part 43. It'll pay off in the end when you need something done.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:26:01 PM by Wolfala »
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Owning an airplane
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2011, 11:25:55 PM »
Quote from: Maverick on April 19, 2011, 11:18:18 PM
Then I guess you know everything already.

All that stuff that blew onto my RV and vehicles must have just magically apeared when I visit the area each year.

I wasn't saying I knew everything. When you said dusty I immediatly pictured a desert. I understand now thats not what you meant, apologies.

<S>
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