Author Topic: 2011 Car Of The Year???  (Read 2588 times)

Offline NatCigg

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2011, 08:41:36 PM »
:lol no of course not.

which is more thermodynamically efficient: a power station or a car's petrol engine?

which is cheaper to transport over 100s of miles: 1KW of electricity or 1KW of petrol?

but, how much energy is need to do the same amount of work?  crabploa whos got a calculator? :headscratch:

Offline F22RaptorDude

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2011, 09:37:50 PM »
Nissan Leaf.... they are kidding right??   Nope!!

What kind of idiots dole out these awards.  :rofl
My cousin is buying that car! AND SO AM I!  :lol  :D
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 09:40:19 PM by F22RaptorDude »
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Offline ElGuapo1

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2011, 09:45:30 PM »
What i find hilarious is that these electro-junkies dont realize its a gas powered turbine  generator that makes the electricity that charges their electric cars.WTG Tree Huggers...ROFLMAO!

Offline F22RaptorDude

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2011, 09:46:30 PM »
What i find hilarious is that these electro-junkies dont realize its a gas powered turbine  generator that makes the electricity that charges their electric cars.WTG Tree Huggers...ROFLMAO!
Some use solar panels :)
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2011, 10:46:46 PM »
assuming the increased demand for electricity will be feed from only burning fossil fuels. sure it makes sense.

doesn't matter how the electricity is produced.

supply and demand. if the demand goes up, so will the price. oh yea.....and isn't our grid kinda out of date already?
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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2011, 11:05:20 PM »
:lol no of course not.

which is more thermodynamically efficient: a power station or a car's petrol engine?

which is cheaper to transport over 100s of miles: 1KW of electricity or 1KW of petrol?

This.  The electric car haters don't think things through very far at all.

Also, its generally a good thing not to give billions to our enemies.  Like we do with oil.  I'd much rather make Germany and Japan rich than the middle east, at least they share our values.

Edit: Oil is only responsible for 40% of our electricity production.  The other 60% comes from other sources, mostly domestic.  So anyone that says:  "What i find hilarious is that these electro-junkies dont realize its a gas powered turbine generator that makes the electricity that charges their electric cars. WTG Tree Huggers...ROFLMAO!" isn't considering that the majority of the electricity to power electric cars won't be sourced from oil, and that electricity production and distribution is far more efficient than oil and gasoline.

Electric car haters are still just plain wrong.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 11:12:07 PM by BoilerDown »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2011, 11:07:28 PM »
This.  The electric car haters don't think things through very far at all.

Also, its generally a good thing not to give billions to our enemies.  Like we do with oil.  I'd much rather make Germany and Japan rich than the middle east, at least they share our values.


where do you think we get lithium and nimh batteries?
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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2011, 11:16:28 PM »
where do you think we get lithium and nimh batteries?

Sunderland, England; Kanagawa prefecture, Japan; and Smyrna, Tennessee.

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1033848_2011-nissan-leaf-batteries

Haters are still wrong.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2011, 11:22:34 PM »
Sunderland, England; Kanagawa prefecture, Japan; and Smyrna, Tennessee.

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1033848_2011-nissan-leaf-batteries

Haters are still wrong.


don't forget china.

and it's not a hate thing. it's a common sense thing.

 can i drive from nj to nc on a single charge? or even just to va? hell.....can i drive from snj to nnj on a single charge? can i recharge those batteries in 3 minutes, and go that same distance again?
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2011, 11:52:42 PM »
I really hate the Prius..... and those who tend to drive them.  This BBC test even shows how they get worse mileage than a BMW M3 sporting a 414 horsepower V8.
And Race between a Ferrari 599, Lamborghini Murcielago, Mercedes McLaren, Aston Martin DBS and Audi R8 but each car is given just 1 gallon of fuel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w


In my opinion, there are two very good things that are commonly overlooked about electric motors.
1.  You can always tow a generator if you need to.
2.  100% torque is achieved the instant current is applied.

If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.

Offline saggs

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2011, 11:58:06 PM »
Electric cars can be more energy efficient in the grand scheme then gas piston cars.  It all depends on how the electricity is produced.

Remember that internal combustion engines are only 30-35% efficient at best.  eg. 70% of the energy in a gallon of gas is just wasted as heat.   Whereas some combined-cycle fossil fuel fired power plants are up to 50% efficient, most are the same as car engines though.  Wind and solar are even less efficient, however their energy sources are not hydrocarbons, so they leave less air pollution if they are used long enough to recoup the initial energy cost of their manufacturing.

Problem with electric cars right now is that:

1) They are just not very practical, especially for people like me in rural areas.  When you have to drive 100 miles to the grocery store, a car that only goes less then 200 miles on a charge, and takes several hours to recharge is completely worthless.  Of course this will improve with better battery technology.

2)  There is a significant environmental cost to the mining, extraction and refining, of the materials that go into every car.  However with electric cars the initial cost is higher due to the batteries.  The theory is that they will be more friendly in the long run because of their greater efficiency, but again, that all depends on how the electricity is generated.

3)  The electrical infrastructure would need huge upgrades to handle the load if everybody started plugging their cars in. ***I know, I know according to the electric car lobby our current power grid "could" handle it if everybody only ever charged their car in the middle of the night.  But I call BS on that.***   In reality our current power grid could not handle it.  Not everyone is gonna be perfect about charging only during off peak hours.  Remember rolling blackouts in CA and AZ from everyone running their air conditioner in the summer, guess what, people drive a lot in the summer too?  Imagine the rolling blackouts busy holiday seasons when everyone is charging their car to go on vacation, AND they have their AC going because it's 100°.   So what kind of generators do we build to power our electric cars, Coal, Oil, Hydroelectric, Nuclear, Solar, Windfarm???  Every one of them has it's drawbacks and disadvantages, and remember NIMBY syndrome, there are few who want a power plant (or oil drill) in their back yard.

Also what about power outages, in some rural areas, they happen quite frequently.  What do you do, call your boss. "Sorry I can't make it to work today because the power was out last night so my car is dead."

So no... I don't think pure electric cars are a good idea.  A better solution IMO would be better hybrid technology, with diesels.  I mean current diesel cars already get better mileage then gasoline hybrids, so why not make a diesel/electric hybrid.  They've been doing it on trains for many years.

Hydrogen technology seems neat too, but it has a long way to go before it is practical as well.

Bottom line, there is no simple solution, there is no "free" energy, it all has advantages and drawbacks.  I don't think electric cars are the great Satan like some do.  Nor do I think they are the panacea to all our energy problems like others.  There are gullible people, marketing gimmicks and ridiculous propaganda on both sides of the issue, although I think there is quite a bit more on one side....   :bolt:

« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 12:25:11 AM by saggs »

Offline BoilerDown

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2011, 12:16:58 AM »
don't forget china.

China will not make a Li-Ion that goes into an mass produced electric car in a long long time.  China makes cheap batteries good for flashlights but far too unsafe for putting into vehicles.  Safe Lithium-based batteries take more complex processes and that's why Nissan isn't making their batteries there.

and it's not a hate thing. it's a common sense thing.

 can i drive from nj to nc on a single charge? or even just to va? hell.....can i drive from snj to nnj on a single charge? can i recharge those batteries in 3 minutes, and go that same distance again?

In Israel and Denmark they are rolling out battery swap stations that swap spent batteries with fresh ones, and it should work in less time than it takes to fill a gas tank.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Tech/2011/0419/Better-Place-Turning-Israel-into-electric-car-country
http://www.fastcompany.com/1709616/better-place-teams-up-with-renault
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Offline 5PointOh

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2011, 01:00:43 AM »
The company I work is investing in the future of electric cars.  Lets face it guys, if the electric car industry can get an electric car to surpass the 300mi mark, ability to fast charge, and a standard charging plug. They will be come main stream. And believe me there are many companies working on it feverishly around the world.  They are still very early in figuring all of this out.  In the beginning of the ICE I'm sure the augments between a horse and automobile were the same.

If you think about the possibilities of clean energy, its actually a good thing.  Solar, Wind, water...all clean energy sources.  All could be semi free if you really sit down and think about it.  Naturally while all of the technologies are in their infancy they seem expensive, but the prices will go down. 

And by no means am I earth loving hippie freak.  I would rather not depend on foreign oil since some people in a little tiny district said we can't drill in Alaska and other parts of the country. 
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Offline clerick

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2011, 02:44:29 AM »
I don't care if my farfegnugen come from gas, diesel or electricity.  All I care about is that progress is actually progress.  Much of what is put forth as "clean" or "efficient" isn't really much better then the status quo. The only difference is that the end user can feel good about themselves because they are far removed from the "dirty" process of electrical production.  Electric cars, at this point in the game, are just another bandwagon for greenies to jump on. 

The thermal efficiency of a coal plant is about the same as a small 4-stroke engine (33%) and gas plants approach 50%.  Where is the dramatic difference?  Is it worth all the expense and energy to produce a car that has, according to Nissan's figures, a 70-100 mile range and a questionable battery life? Sure they say it will last 10 years, but they admit its capacity will be as low as 70% of new by then, a whopping 49-70 mile range. If anyone is going to drive this thing anywhere near as often as a straight ICE or even a hybrid these batteries won't hold up.  Especially since Nissan saw fit to save money by NOT including thermal regulation.  Let's see these baby's survive in Arizona, California or any other hot climate.  The way I see it is this, if cars 'X' and 'Y' both cost 'Z' Dollars, and car X can only drive me half the distance in its lifetime as car Y, which is more efficient?

There are a number of existing and, frankly, old technologies that exist that could improve on an ICE's efficiency. Build a hybrid with a two-stroke turbo Diesel and you'd have amazing efficiency (btw, that's how trains and ships often do it and at 50+% efficiency to boot).  Ford is currently producing a line of Direct-Injection turbo motors that are very efficient and very powerful and very clean at the same time.  Other companies are following suite. The ICE has not yet begun to fight in terms of efficiency.

Does the electric car have a future? I doubt it. Simply because electrical production and transportation is already overstressed in many areas and the means of production aren't much better than letting each individual car do it on it's own.  Do I really care? No.  Like I stated earlier, give me some REAL progress and I'll get that tingly sensation running up my leg.

Offline camnite

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Re: 2011 Car Of The Year???
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2011, 05:56:00 AM »
wasn't there a guy not too long ago that got like 400hp and 100mpg out of his mustang? I think he was using selective cylinders and a few other things but still, if true, that is quite impressive.

And lets not forget Mickey Thompson's Fiero
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