the farce has lasted long enough...

[HighTone]

No need to perk the Spit 16.

I agree with Guppy, I like to see them because they do tend to stick around and fight. See a couple of spits... "ah ha, a fight". See a couple of 51's... "ok whos running where" 


Perking them would only cause them to fly less aggressive.

[BnZs]

You have, in the past, stated quite plainly you do not believe any aircraft except the jet and the rocket should be perked. Do you admit this, or do I have to go to trouble of looking up the posts? Therefore, your opinion on whether or not any particular prop fighter should or should not be perked carries no meaning.

The term "unbalancing" has never been defined in a precise and consistent manner. It is thus pointless to argue about whether any particular aircraft is "unbalancing" or not, it is like arguing about what is "pornographic" and what is not. Give me a precise definition of the term "unbalancing" that provably applies to all the planes currently perked, and then we will talk.

This is a game. Games are constantly manipulated to make the play more fair, varied, and enjoyable. The rules of chess, for instance, are not the same as they were in the reign of Charlemagne. Combat between dissimilar aircraft is at its most fun, interesting, and fairest when none of the aircraft present hold all (or the vast majority) of the cards. Both the SpitXVI and the La7 should be lightly perked in the interest of fairness and variety, given the very large number of other types to which they are double superior. (Those who are ignorant of the precise definition of this last term as it applies to air combat performance, please do not waste time and bandwith by replying.)

I believe in perking the planes and vehicles that would otherwise unbalance the game play if unperked.  The Spitfire XVI, unperked does not unbalance the game play in the arena and those claiming that it does have been unable to show or prove how it does unbalance the game.

Please, explain how the Spitfire XVI has been an unbalancing factor in the game play.  I know I've asked you this question many times in the past and you've been unable to show at all how the Spitfire XVI unbalances the game play if left unperked.

I'm in favor of removing the perks form the C-Hog because I believe that it would no longer unbalance the game play like it did prior to it being perked.  Calling for the Spitfire XVI to be perked is just as silly as the past cries to perk the La-7.


ack-ack

[BnZs]

LOL that's just silly.  16s aren't invincible, in fact this 38G driver likes to see em cause they think they are, and tend to stick around and try and fight.

So in your opinion, gameplay is better (fairer? more fun? I don't if we have a consistent definition here either) in a situation where one aircraft has every single advantage except possibly pilotage, than in a situation one plane is inferior in one two areas (say turn and climb) but has the option of using its superior speed to disengage?

I can only say our definitions of what constitutes fun and balanced gameplay are very different.

Oh, and Spixteens CAN run from your P-38G without too much trouble. I have seen PLENTY of Spixteens running in the MA.

[Ack-Ack]

You have, in the past, stated quite plainly you do not believe any aircraft except the jet and the rocket should be perked. Do you admit this, or do I have to go to trouble of looking up the posts? Therefore, your opinion on whether or not any particular prop fighter should or should not be perked carries no meaning.

What I stated in my previous post has always been my stance and hasn't changed in all the years I've played AH.  So, please go ahead and post anything where I've said otherwise.

The term "unbalancing" has never been defined in a precise and consistent manner. It is thus pointless to argue about whether any particular aircraft is "unbalancing" or not, it is like arguing about what is "pornographic" and what is not. Give me a precise definition of the term "unbalancing" that provably applies to all the planes currently perked, and then we will talk.

It has been many times and with the example of the C-Hog to show how a plane could unbalance the game play.  Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what one means by the term "unbalanced game play", especially if using an example of a plane that when first introduced did unbalance game play (which I believe is no longer the case with our increased plane set).  I'll say it again just like I said it you many times in the past, please show how the Spitfire XIV unbalances the game play like the C-Hog did when it was first introduced.  It's been years and a lot of us have been waiting for your answer and we're all starting to get old waiting.

ack-ack

[Noir]

The Spitfire's roll rates, clipped and unclipped, are taken directly from the NACA chart.

If you want the Spitfire Mk XVI perked, surely you want the vastly more common and more successful P-51D perked, right?  If not, why not?

I'm sure the spit16 is right on the charts on measurable performances.

its not about usage volume but performance. The P51D is limited to boom and zoom, while the spit16 is pretty good for bnz (almost as good as the pony) AND a fearsome dogfighter, that's why it is a bit too good to be free IMO. As a pony driver, if the spit16 knows what he is doing, what am I supposed to do to beat it?

[coombz]

the French messing with my Spit16?!?! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

 

[Noir]

So in your opinion, gameplay is better (fairer? more fun? I don't if we have a consistent definition here either) in a situation where one aircraft has every single advantage except possibly pilotage, than in a situation one plane is inferior in one two areas (say turn and climb) but has the option of using its superior speed to disengage?

my thoughts exactly. leave the skills out of the equation.

[MachFly]

the Spit XIV has many weaknesses

I completely disagree, if flown correctly it has none. 

[MachFly]

There is no need to perk spit 16, it's not good above 10K and it's not one of the fastest planes. Sure the spit16 will kill you if you play it's fight, which most people do, but the trick is to make it play yours and you'll win (just like with any other plane).

[Lusche]

I completely disagree, if flown correctly it has none. 

You can not remove remove weaknesses or generally change the performance limitations by "flying correctly".

A good pilot may be able to overcome them by carefully respecting the performance limitations and trying to use  the plane's strengths... but the weak points are still there.

[MachFly]

You can not remove remove weaknesses or generally change the performance limitations by "flying correctly".

A good pilot may be able to overcome them by carefully respecting the performance limitations and trying to use  the plane's strengths... but the weak points are still there.

Ah yeah but you know I'm never going to agree to that in Spit14's case 

[Karnak]

I'm sure the spit16 is right on the charts on measurable performances.

its not about usage volume but performance. The P51D is limited to boom and zoom, while the spit16 is pretty good for bnz (almost as good as the pony) AND a fearsome dogfighter, that's why it is a bit too good to be free IMO. As a pony driver, if the spit16 knows what he is doing, what am I supposed to do to beat it?

Sorry, I can't agree.  The P-51D is just as potent, if not more so, in this game.  The fact that you like it and it is your baby doesn't excuse it from the discussion.  It has far more kills and a better K/D ratio than the Spitfire Mk XVI every tour and you and not just hand wave that away.

For me it would be better if the Spitfire Mk XVI were perked, but I think it would be worse for the game.

[Lusche]

It has far more kills and a better K/D ratio than the Spitfire Mk XVI every tour and you and not just hand wave that away.

In fact, the usage for the P-51D has gone way up during the last 6 months... current tour is 23K to 12K kills (with a better k/d to boot). I can't remember the Pony ever outclassing the 16 in the stats by such a margin before.

[guncrasher]

I'm sure the spit16 is right on the charts on measurable performances.

its not about usage volume but performance. The P51D is limited to boom and zoom, while the spit16 is pretty good for bnz (almost as good as the pony) AND a fearsome dogfighter, that's why it is a bit too good to be free IMO. As a pony driver, if the spit16 knows what he is doing, what am I supposed to do to beat it?

what?  so we cannot turn fight with the ponyd?  where's that written in the rules?  and I switched from flying spits to flying ponies because they can also turn fight.

semp

[Noir]

what?  so we cannot turn fight with the ponyd?  where's that written in the rules?  and I switched from flying spits to flying ponies because they can also turn fight.

semp

assuming you had a clone flying a spit16, would you turnfight him in a pony for more than 360 degrees?