Author Topic: P-80 vs 262 ?  (Read 1222 times)

Offline Grayeagle

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2011, 10:08:26 PM »
LOL .. well .. I could be wrong :)
(not the first time)  

. . the swept wings and lifting fuselage design worked very well on the 262
.. would have been interesting to see how they matched in some air-to-air fun for sure.

It's interesting to note that the 262 still posted higher speeds than the P-80 at higher alts on Widewings tables.
262 seems to like 20-25k while the P-80 seems to enjoy 8k-12k for top speeds.

..and aye, engines out on the wings would be a liability in a roll and dive away attempt..
.. even tryin to dive away from a P-80 would be a bad idea as it gets faster lower than the 262 does.

I'd hafta come in high and boom an zoom the P-80 .. treat it like a zeke :)

-GE aka Frank
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 10:22:30 PM by Grayeagle »
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2011, 10:45:53 PM »
4x30mm will trump 6x .50 cal just about every day of the week except Sunday, and only then between 11:59PM and Monday.

I'll take that bet.   

In many cases the 6/.50 cals were better that then 30mm cannons.  No, not in raw damage but in ballistics and accuracy.  The more I compare the 2 weapons platforms the more I see that the 30mm had only 1 thing in its favor and that is the obvious: damage per round.  There is a much larger room for error with the 6/50's.  At the speeds in which those jets were moving, I'd be willing to put my money on the 6/50's.  With that said, I think the quad 20mm Hispano's would have been better yet for the P80.  I still dont know why the Germans placed so much trust in the 30mm, I think over-kill and too close for comfort when using a 262 or 110 vs bombers.  That is just me though.

Who would rather have a Me262 w/ quad German 151/20 20mm with more 3X the ammo and far better velocity and ballistics while retaining more than enough firepower to knock anything out of the sky???  I would without a doubt.
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Offline bozon

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2011, 02:37:25 AM »
P-80 would cost more perk points which means that the LW could fly 262s more often. On the other hand, the lower ENY of the 262 prevented its use if/when the axis were rolling over the allied.
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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2011, 03:41:01 AM »
Didn't the p-80 and a few other A/c at that time use the faster firing An/M2 .50cal?
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Offline Angus

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2011, 04:55:20 AM »
P80 would not meed HT's criteria,
The Meteor is on the edge, since it did engage in combat in WW2.
Meteor III is not far away from the 262.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2011, 02:21:18 PM »
P80 would not meed HT's criteria,
The Meteor is on the edge, since it did engage in combat in WW2.
Meteor III is not far away from the 262.

TA 152H is in the game. I've read where only 10 were built and saw little action.
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Offline Grendel

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2011, 03:48:35 PM »
USAF testing:

"Despite a difference in gross weight of nearly 2,000 lb (900 kg), the Me 262 was superior to the P-80 in acceleration, speed and approximately the same in climb performance. The Me 262 apparently has a higher critical Mach number, from a drag standpoint, than any current Army Air Force fighter."

Ethell and Price 1994, p. 180.

Speed is life. Speed means ability to engage and disengage at will.

Online MiloMorai

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2011, 05:52:34 PM »
USAF testing:

"Despite a difference in gross weight of nearly 2,000 lb (900 kg), the Me 262 was superior to the P-80 in acceleration, speed and approximately the same in climb performance. The Me 262 apparently has a higher critical Mach number, from a drag standpoint, than any current Army Air Force fighter."

Ethell and Price 1994, p. 180.

Speed is life. Speed means ability to engage and disengage at will.

From a report done by Al Boyd from post war testing at Wright Field.

The P-80 was easier to handle and had better visibility.

Supposedly this test was hidden away/suppressed.

Offline Babalonian

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 06:26:41 PM »
4x30mm will trump 6x .50 cal just about every day of the week except Sunday, and only then between 11:59PM and Monday.

In-game.  It has been discussed to end before in these forums that in-game ballistic characteristics of our MK108 30mms are almost lazer-gun acurate compared to real-life.  I forget the hard numbers, but it was something like 15-25 foot random hit-box at 200-300 meters would more acuratley represent the German's 30mm balistics.  They were used in the real world more in a fashion of spray and pray, here in the game we use them as accurate slow-velocity high-drop-rate potatoes.  But similarly to the ones modeled in the game, when and if they made contact with an enemy AC in real-life, boy did they make a noticable contact.

In a dogfight between a P-80 and Me-262 I'd imagine the gun solutions would be mostly brief snap-shots, 1-2 seconds of pulling the trigger, and in that situation I think a P-80 would be stronger as it may not kill the 262 in one sucessful solution, but it could damage it and then put it in a situation to get sadled up for a solid kill.  With the 262, it would be hit or miss, either he's gets lucky and lands a shot that most likely puts the P-80 out of the fight, or he misses repeatedly, and given the information provided in this thread it seems the longer a Me-262 has to hang around and fight a P-80, the less likely it is to fly away the winner.

So, if this discussion isn't to take into account any AH factors, then it isn't a far-fetched conclusion to draw that 6 balisticly acurate .50-cals with a lead-computing gunsight would give 4 balisticly accurate 30mms with a revi sight a very good run for theirs.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 06:30:51 PM by Babalonian »
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Online MiloMorai

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 07:19:41 PM »
Would that be the EZ42 sight?

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2011, 08:36:44 PM »
P-80 was a bit of a dog compared to the 262, not as fast, slower climber, bled 'E' faster due to low power output.

Please note the words 'compared to'
.. the P-80 was faster than the Mustang ..just not as fast as the 262 by a significant margin.
Prolly a good thing it didn't make the 'show', even a D-9 would have had it for lunch with half a chance.

Just my 2 copper.

-GE aka Frank

Nope.

4x30mm will trump 6x .50 cal just about every day of the week except Sunday, and only then between 11:59PM and Monday.

annnnd  Nope.


P-80 all day/night/dawn/dusk/etc. long
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Offline Grayeagle

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2011, 09:38:02 PM »
Think 'Eric Hartmann' tactics . . not dog fighting.

The 30mm premise was to blow buffs outta the sky .. it did that very well.

I had the opportunity to chat with a B-17 waist gunner long ago.. he saw a 262 dive into his group, line up, and blow one of his buddies right out of the sky, then the 262 did a low G loop up .. all the while the Mustang top cover was diving .. the 262 came down, lined up on this guys wingman, blew him out of the sky, then dove away in a shallow dive.

It happened so fast he never had a chance to get a bead on it.

The Mustang's never got close.

-GE
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Offline hlbly

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2011, 03:24:15 AM »
P80 would not meed HT's criteria,
The Meteor is on the edge, since it did engage in combat in WW2.
Meteor III is not far away from the 262.
Check out my op . Not a wish list thing just wanted opinions from some of the guys that are more learned than I . Was hoping widowmaker and some of those guys that I have to read the posts twice would contribute .

Offline Babalonian

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2011, 01:53:49 PM »
Think 'Eric Hartmann' tactics . . not dog fighting.

The 30mm premise was to blow buffs outta the sky .. it did that very well.

I had the opportunity to chat with a B-17 waist gunner long ago.. he saw a 262 dive into his group, line up, and blow one of his buddies right out of the sky, then the 262 did a low G loop up .. all the while the Mustang top cover was diving .. the 262 came down, lined up on this guys wingman, blew him out of the sky, then dove away in a shallow dive.

It happened so fast he never had a chance to get a bead on it.

The Mustang's never got close.

-GE


I don't disagree, especially if a 262 got the jump on a P-80 like he was jumping a formation of buffs, one good solid bead and there would be nothing but pieces.  But the Mk108 was almost perfect for attacking large buffs in a variety of situations, they're big and slow and flew in tight formations.  Not the hardest target to hit even with 4 random dispersing potato guns.  It's effectiveness against a faster, smaller and more maneuverable target though, while certainly lethal if it connected, would be less adapative or reliable for results given multiple situations like the P-80s armament. 
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Offline kilo2

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Re: P-80 vs 262 ?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2011, 01:58:19 PM »
TA 152H is in the game. I've read where only 10 were built and saw little action.

59 were built and used, many more were built in the factory waiting delivery when the allies captured it. In a couple of sources they quote that only ten were ever working at the same time but that is not true.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 02:01:25 PM by kilo2 »
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