Me262 question: Did it have WEP?

[Krusty]

I noticed on zeno's warbirds manual:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zenoswarbirdvideos.com%2FImages%2FMe262%2F262PilotHandbook.pdf&ei=VgXSTZPkEITAsAOtu7mOCQ&usg=AFQjCNHbi3WvP-vM4tnlg4geXSfbz7me_g

That the me262 is listed as having 10 minutes of "takeoff power" -- akin to WEP in layman's terms. This is listed as 8700 rpm, and max continuous is listed as 8400 rpm (aka "military power" in AH terms).

In-game, we have full 8700 rpm all the time. Should this be limited to 10 minute overheat periods like WEP is? Should we not stop at 8400 until we hit "P" on the keyboard?

Or is this just a case of the US test doing things different from the Germans in the field?


Also, the manual lists lift-off speeds as 112-125mph or so. HAH!!!

I can never get mine to lift off without full flaps and at least 150-175mph!

What's up with that? I've always thought this thing is more a pig than it should be. Have I stumbled onto something here, or not?

Just curious about the pilot handbook discrepencies and what I've noticed in AH.

[Guppy35]

One of the Spit XII pilots I got to know back in the 80s flew Meteors with 616 at the end of the war.  He was sent to get a 262 from Fassberg.  Prior to flying it, he spent time with the English speaking 262 pilot who had brought it in.  He still had the notes he wrote prior to his flying the 262.  This is what the German pilot said then.

Max Gas  760c
White smoke from turbine

Flaps up and wheels up 200 KPH
Approach speed 300-350 KPH
Cross the fence: 210-220

Take off run 1800 yards on Grass
1700 yards for good pilots

Flap angle for take off 20 degrees
Slats open outside  400KPH
Slats open inside 300KPH

Engine RPM 8700 take off
Max cruise 8400
Max climb 8400

Elevator trim for take off slightly nose heavy
cruising 675 KPH

Not sure if that helps.  He commented that the acceleration was slow even compared to the Meteor.  He also commented that the brakes were very poor compared to the British ones and he had a 2000 yard roll out on landing.

[beau32]

Krusty,

I also have a flight manual on a Me-262 A-1 and it has about the same information you are giving out.

Operation Condition         RPM                              Time Limit
Take-off                        8700 +/- 200                  5 min
Military                          8700 +/- 200                  10 min
Max Continuous (90%)      8400


Take off notes

Release brakes and open throttles fully, making directional corrections with brakes only. After flying speed (approximately 180 to 202 km/hr. 112-125 MPH) has been attained, pull gently back on stick to raise nose wheel and make the take off.

I also have a manual in german, and it basically states the same thing as above. I am going to take into effect that the aircraft has a full load of fuel on board as they were hopefully test flying under a combat load situation.

[Krusty]

So .... what does that mean?

Is our 262 too slow to accelerate? Is it too heavy on the wings? Because I know *I* can't ge it to take off at a docile 112mph... Only when I'm out of ammo and out of gas on a rtb landing can I get it that slow.

I've always found it to be excessively sluggish in pulling a G or two to get angle on targets, as well. If there's something off on the takeoff run it might be tied to the overall handling. I know HTC nerfed the elevator inputs a bit (to stop folks complaining they ripped their own wings off through ham-fisted manuvers???), but I wish he hadn't. It really made the plane mostly worthless. Even the P-38 and P-39 can mush through turns. 262 used to, but then it can't do that anymore with the reduced elevator authority.


I know it was never "manuverable" in the turning sense, but I've always thought "this can't be right, can it?" when handling the plane. That's across the envelope too, from the painful takeoffs to the medium speeds, to the high alts high speeds slashing attacks, etc.

It would be nice to see if our 262 isn't modeled correctly or what.

[Noir]

I remember a thread where wmaker stated the speeds were wrong also, and documented it too.

do your manuals talk about the flaps?

[Krusty]

Only says they are a certain type and the notches used.

It says 20 degrees on takeoff.

Another handling notes manual I read [edit: after my original post up there] from some captured/surrendered pilots at the end of the war suggests that the attitude sitting on the ground is a lower AoA than the slowest flight speed, and that you have to pull it off the runway. It futher notes, however, that if you pull too far you will create drag without creating any lift and won't lift off, and in that case to release the stick back down so you're on the runway and try again (still rolling).

I am going to have to test some of this out and see if it holds true in AH as well... It's possible I've just been taking off wrong.

[lyric1]

I would contact the makers of the new 262's & see what they have. I would imagine they couldn't be to far apart.


http://stormbirds.com/common/feedback.htm

[Krusty]

The problem with that is the engine power is totally different.

Those birds are far more responsive with thrust, and that changes how they handle, how they accelerate, take off, etc..

[lyric1]

The problem with that is the engine power is totally different.

Those birds are far more responsive with thrust, and that changes how they handle, how they accelerate, take off, etc..

Yes that is most likely correct. These guys touched base with about every surviving 262 guy from back in the day. They would most likely be able to confirm or deny what you think. I have contacted these guys before on a separate issue & they were very responsive. Can't hurt to ask.

[RTHolmes]

It says 20 degrees on takeoff.

Another handling notes manual I read [edit: after my original post up there] from some captured/surrendered pilots at the end of the war suggests that the attitude sitting on the ground is a lower AoA than the slowest flight speed, and that you have to pull it off the runway. It futher notes, however, that if you pull too far you will create drag without creating any lift and won't lift off, and in that case to release the stick back down so you're on the runway and try again (still rolling).

thats how I take off at max weight (although I use the AH 262's excellent brakes to build rpms before rolling at full power), 1 notch of flap (maybe 2 at the last minute if its a short rw or theres trees just off the the end of the rw) and gentle fwd pressure on the stick to keep the nose down until 200mph then gentle pull back to ~500fpm climb, flaps in at 250ish level, accelerate to 300ish then start sustained autoclimb.

sounds like WEP should be enabled from the above

[Krusty]

But that's the thing: you have to hold down til 200mph!

It should lift off gently at 112-125 according to the above.

It also states that the brakes are set to keep the plane from moving up to 8400rpm. I'm not sure but I don't know if ours hold out that long. I really have to check that out.

EDIT: Also if wep was added it would de-rate the normal operations, down to 8400 max continuous. Currently we're running full WEP all the time?

[BnZs]

If they lower maximum continuous N1 to 8,400 to be historical, well and good, but I hope they also lower the perk price 10%!

[Lusche]

If they lower maximum continuous N1 to 8,400 to be historical, well and good, but I hope they also lower the perk price 10%!

I see no direct relation. If we would get the >8400 settings as a kind of "WEP", nothing much would change in terms of combat performance if we get 10 mins of full power at a time. Even at only 8400 rpm, the 262 cruises at insane speed. It still would be the same dread of all goons and buffs.

[Krusty]

Much as I'd like a lower perk on it, I'd have to agree. It would be just as effective. Most times I'm not even running 8400rpm in climb. Then once you're at alt where you get the fuel duration, you don't NEED to run full power because you're already up there. During combat I often find myself backed off the throttle significantly (unless zooming straight up or running away from chasers)

[SmokinLoon]

The only time I am ever full throttle in a Me262 is when I'm trying to go wheels up and grab altitude.  Once to the desired alt, I dont think I ever cross 7000 RPM's.  If I go too fast I miss all the more easily.     At 15-20k alt, you are still at minimum 50-70 mph faster than the fastest prop plane with 7k RPM. 

It is nothing to be in the air for over an hour with relaxed engine settings.