Just for CAP1 a real car!

[Plawranc]

Penguin.

Some people, you may not understand this but I will try to explain.

Some people, are willing to live and die for some of the most trivial of things. The love of ones car, the love of speed, the adrenaline rush achieved by it, is like a drug, you must continuously improve on something to make it perfect. Its a sort of obsession.

CAP, doesn't eat without these people, he is a mechanic, he loves his job, and sometimes he hates his job (especially when the SAPP turn up in AvA  ). But nevertheless cars, and the need of them, keeps him fed, and lets him do what he enjoys in his off hours.

Skuzzy, is rebuilding a Cobra, yet he works tirelessly with the people at HTC to keep this game running and this board civilized, he rarely succeeds in either, but his almighty hammer keeps the peace well enough. His way of unwinding by putting up with morons like us all day is to work on his car. Therefore leaving him sane for the next days BBS policing and technical support.

And most of the people on this board are male from the latter end of the age scale, Cars and Planes, petrol, speed and technical stuff makes their day. As it makes my day as a young and budding driver (and pilot when I get some money together).


My History and English teacher said: "Facts are the least important piece of information, they simply serve as chronological events or knowledge. It is the opinion, and the emotion BEHIND events, and literal work. That matter the most"

Maybe you should take that into account Penguin when commenting on such trivial matters. And maybe, you should stop with the whole, white knight and peace and love routine you constantly pull. You play a game that millions of men played for real and lost, at the cost of their lives, and you play the hero. The world is inherently violent and inherently going to be full of people like the man this whole farce of an argument started. The world is not going to be a utopia Penguin, realize this, and maybe your naieve rants will cease or at least reduce in frequency

/rant and hijack

[CAP1]

Penguin.

Some people, you may not understand this but I will try to explain.

Some people, are willing to live and die for some of the most trivial of things. The love of ones car, the love of speed, the adrenaline rush achieved by it, is like a drug, you must continuously improve on something to make it perfect. Its a sort of obsession.

CAP, doesn't eat without these people, he is a mechanic, he loves his job, and sometimes he hates his job (especially when the SAPP turn up in AvA  ). But nevertheless cars, and the need of them, keeps him fed, and lets him do what he enjoys in his off hours.

Skuzzy, is rebuilding a Cobra, yet he works tirelessly with the people at HTC to keep this game running and this board civilized, he rarely succeeds in either, but his almighty hammer keeps the peace well enough. His way of unwinding by putting up with morons like us all day is to work on his car. Therefore leaving him sane for the next days BBS policing and technical support.

And most of the people on this board are male from the latter end of the age scale, Cars and Planes, petrol, speed and technical stuff makes their day. As it makes my day as a young and budding driver (and pilot when I get some money together).


My History and English teacher said: "Facts are the least important piece of information, they simply serve as chronological events or knowledge. It is the opinion, and the emotion BEHIND events, and literal work. That matter the most"

Maybe you should take that into account Penguin when commenting on such trivial matters. And maybe, you should stop with the whole, white knight and peace and love routine you constantly pull. You play a game that millions of men played for real and lost, at the cost of their lives, and you play the hero. The world is inherently violent and inherently going to be full of people like the man this whole farce of an argument started. The world is not going to be a utopia Penguin, realize this, and maybe your naieve rants will cease or at least reduce in frequency

/rant and hijack

how old are you again?

 you are sooooo right about the adrenaline rush. when i still had my mustang(12's @117mph), it was a rush EVERY time i side-stepped the clutch at 6200rpm.
 when i drove the shop camaro(9.9's at 131mph) it was such a rush, that i couldn't even right in my notebook when i got back into the pits. i was shaking from the rush. it took 3 to 5 minutes for the shaking to stop, so i had to talk what happened during the run, and my old boss wrote it all down. 

[Penguin]

Penguin.

Some people, you may not understand this but I will try to explain.

Some people, are willing to live and die for some of the most trivial of things. The love of ones car, the love of speed, the adrenaline rush achieved by it, is like a drug, you must continuously improve on something to make it perfect. Its a sort of obsession.

CAP, doesn't eat without these people, he is a mechanic, he loves his job, and sometimes he hates his job (especially when the SAPP turn up in AvA  ). But nevertheless cars, and the need of them, keeps him fed, and lets him do what he enjoys in his off hours.

Skuzzy, is rebuilding a Cobra, yet he works tirelessly with the people at HTC to keep this game running and this board civilized, he rarely succeeds in either, but his almighty hammer keeps the peace well enough. His way of unwinding by putting up with morons like us all day is to work on his car. Therefore leaving him sane for the next days BBS policing and technical support.

And most of the people on this board are male from the latter end of the age scale, Cars and Planes, petrol, speed and technical stuff makes their day. As it makes my day as a young and budding driver (and pilot when I get some money together).


My History and English teacher said: "Facts are the least important piece of information, they simply serve as chronological events or knowledge. It is the opinion, and the emotion BEHIND events, and literal work. That matter the most"

Maybe you should take that into account Penguin when commenting on such trivial matters. And maybe, you should stop with the whole, white knight and peace and love routine you constantly pull. You play a game that millions of men played for real and lost, at the cost of their lives, and you play the hero. The world is inherently violent and inherently going to be full of people like the man this whole farce of an argument started. The world is not going to be a utopia Penguin, realize this, and maybe your naieve rants will cease or at least reduce in frequency

/rant and hijack

First of all, the game I play (AHII) is very, very different from the actual combat of World War II.  Try living with the threat of death hanging over you every day, with work at all hours of day and night.  That's the 'game' that many real pilots played and lost during the war.  We play something that is arcade in comparison.

Furthermore, I've noticed that you've copied a previous poster with whom I've debated.  However, whether I play AHII has no bearing on whether racing cars is an effective method of research and development for the masses.  Your argument is a non-sequitur.  Speaking of the masses, my retort to your utopia strawman argument.

First of all, your argument about me being a delusional utopian is both false (I am most certainly not delusional and I recognize that the world can never be perfect) and a strawman fallacy, in that you attempt to shift the issue by attacking a non-existent part of my argument. It is also ad hominem (your insults make this clear). 

My original post was less than one paragraph long, so I'd hardly consider that a rant.

What is the definition of 'important'?  The greatest impact?  The most use in a debate?  Facts are actually quite important, and to try arguing anything without them will not get you far at all.  For instance, no matter how much you believe that the sun is made of coal, we all know that it is a massive fusion reaction.   

Your argument is weak.  All I see are insults, non-sequiturs, strawmen, and emotional appeals. 

Theres a reason why various car manufactures have factory race teams, its to research and develop parts for better reliability and durability, making safer cars and trucks for the roads we drive today

Aha, now there's a reasonable, non-ranting answer to my question.  Thank-you zoom.

-Penguin

[CAP1]

First of all, the game I play (AHII) is very, very different from the actual combat of World War II.  Try living with the threat of death hanging over you every day, with work at all hours of day and night.  That's the 'game' that many real pilots played and lost during the war.  We play something that is arcade in comparison.

Furthermore, I've noticed that you've copied a previous poster with whom I've debated.  However, whether I play AHII has no bearing on whether racing cars is an effective method of research and development for the masses.  Your argument is a non-sequitur.  Speaking of the masses, my retort to your utopia strawman argument.

First of all, your argument about me being a delusional utopian is both false (I am most certainly not delusional and I recognize that the world can never be perfect) and a strawman fallacy, in that you attempt to shift the issue by attacking a non-existent part of my argument. It is also ad hominem (your insults make this clear). 

My original post was less than one paragraph long, so I'd hardly consider that a rant.

What is the definition of 'important'?  The greatest impact?  The most use in a debate?  Facts are actually quite important, and to try arguing anything without them will not get you far at all.  For instance, no matter how much you believe that the sun is made of coal, we all know that it is a massive fusion reaction.   

Your argument is weak.  All I see are insults, non-sequiturs, strawmen, and emotional appeals. 

Aha, now there's a reasonable, non-ranting answer to my question.  Thank-you zoom.

-Penguin

almost ALL of the basic safety devices in our cars(that date back at least to the 60's) are developed from racing.

 there's more. do some homework. 

[68ZooM]

one of the biggest crossover enginering from racing to street cars is incorporating roll bars into the design of cars and trucks, crumble zones designed to take impacts, parts designed to come off or collapse during collisions, muti caliper brake designs, the list goes on and on, the safest cars and trucks on the planet are Racing vehicles

[Penguin]

Wow!  Thanks guys, now I know.  Have fun with your muscle cars!

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Wow!  Thanks guys, now I know.  Have fun with your muscle cars!

-Penguin

zoom and i have only scratched the surface. if you go looking, you'll be amazed at what you'll find

[Penguin]

Well, my point is debunked, I don't see what else there is to say.

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Well, my point is debunked, I don't see what else there is to say.

-Penguin

 well......look and learn. we weren't trying to put ya down, but rather we were trying to help you learn. 

[Masherbrum]

well......look and learn. we weren't trying to put ya down, but rather we were trying to help you learn. 

He's playing you.

[Penguin]

I know that you weren't, but it sounds cool, I'll take a look at it after some shuteye.

-Penguin

PS The main reason I come here is to sharpen my debating skills against opponents who know quite a bit more than I do, and see what the other side of an issue has to say.  I have a tough time starting a good argument nicely, and if anyone could PM some ideas on that it would save me a few vacations.

PPS I don't know what you mean by 'playing' masherbrum.

[CAP1]

He's playing you.

are you saying he's trying to bait me? possibly that he is trying to become the master baiter? 

[Plawranc]

Penguin.

You are arguing intellectually on an emotional subject.

Now, my rebuttal.

A. Fact's are established points. However they are ALL open to interpretation. History is written by the victor. So all history and as history itself is indicated by fact itself, it is in fact opinion (hahaha screwing with minds across the BBS). Such can be applied to all fact. While we cannot change how something happens or what happened. The effects, both good and bad, are interpreted by witnesses of said fact. Take this into perspective it will be a wonderful event and a terrible event.

B. Emotions drive all decisions, therefore an emotional argument appealing to a target audience will inherently win more of a response than an intellectual argument. CAP's response to me being right about adrenaline, is an indication of my argument. Emotional appeal is how politicians work and as politicans run your respective country all DECISIONS are made as a result of emotional appeal. (invading Iraq for example cost the republicans the election but this is not a political thread so end it HERE).

C. Your initial cause for this whole farce is a man threatening violence. Your condemning him, however he threatened violence as a direct result of an emotional reaction to an accusation or statement from a person seeking confrontation.

D. Taking into account your former posts. You have so far to my knowledge: Attacked veterans of the Vietnam war and the leaders of your nation in such a period. Trivialised many threads to the point of lock. Hijjacked numerous fun threads INCLUDING THIS ONE, and turned them into human rights debates. The list could be longer.

Now my argument there was not a comment on WW2 pilots, its the comment on aerial warfare itself. You condemn violence, as should we all, yet you do amongst people who have witnessed it, maybeyou should consider the people you are mixing with before making such arguments or comments. I play AH2 and I am a military man. You can say this about most of this community.

Listen penguin. IYou can argue all you like. But here it is, I respect you , but at the same tim I think your a very naieve. It is quite obvious you dont see both sides of an argument. Fact is a bland point. I can wager, if you held a debate with me in an open debate in front of people, spoken debate, with people off the street. I would win convincingly. Why?

Debate is the SWAYING OF OPINION, and opinion is not fact. The sun may be energy caused by a fusion reaction. HOWEVER, its not going to stop some people calling it the finger of god or something. All arguemtn depends on audience. I manufacture my arguments to suit a middleaged man with a love of history and conservative of politics. And wouldnt you know it, I get complimented, and most shoot you down. INCLUDING. me.

This isnt a my thing is biger contest penguin, truth is, I argue with you because its fun. However, ive grasped what you havent. That argument on fact alone NEVER works. It is OPINION. that wins a debate.

Rant over. Your turn flightless birdie 

[Penguin]

EDIT: Removed Plawranc's argument because I don't want to get banned too. 

I disagree entirely, you are attacking me, as a person, rather than my position, be it emotional or factual.  Your post is not a rebuttal, but an emotionally charged reply.  You have not once rebutted my points, while I have both rebutted and successfully debunked yours.

You also seem to have missed my point.  I did not mention human rights at any point during this debate.  Are we reading the same posts?  You brought up AHII, you brought up human rights, you brought up the idea opinion versus fact in a debate. I wanted to know whether or not driving cars very quickly in a controlled environment (aka racing) does anything to help us slower folks (not slower as in dumber, but literally moving through space at a lower speed).

Your argument is a flawed and poorly written strawman designed to distract onlookers from the actual issue.  Answer this question: can racing help humanity to advance technology without costing too much? [Cost being lives and resources that could be spent elsewhere]

Your peers (should I refer to you all as such?) have answered my question admirably and without snide remarks.  I have my answer, and have clearly stated that.  

-Penguin

[Perrine]

Buy a ZR1 and call it a day, it crushes the GTR. Not to mention that Nissan is as ugly as something my cat threw up yesterday.

ZR1 smokes GTR

ZR-1 smokes Nissan GTR, Porsche GT2, and Ferrari 599

GTR = $90,000
ZR1 = $140,000

The improvements made to the 2012 GTR makes the ZR1 a bit overpriced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSckkYkIA0


In pure objectivity, why pay $50,000 more when GT-R has better balance, aerodynamics, better NVH, faster response time between switching gears (with a flick of a finger) , and better lap times around the world, and better acceleration from the dig.

Subjectively though, with the way the car was engineered (and the philosophy behind it) this is the closest the masses can experience Bugatti Veyron refinement and performance.
Thus, GTR = Baby Veyron.