Author Topic: Role of Strats  (Read 749 times)

Offline 100Tech

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Role of Strats
« on: June 05, 2011, 09:28:34 AM »
I wish the strat targets had more of a significant role in the game and spread out like before.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2011, 10:46:01 AM »
You're echoing the wish of a thousand voices!   :)
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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2011, 12:21:25 PM »
+1

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Offline Oddball-CAF

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2011, 12:24:39 PM »
I wish the strat targets had more of a significant role in the game and spread out like before.

Heaven forbid; the furballers might get upset.  :airplane:

Offline badhorse

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2011, 01:27:50 PM »
+1
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Offline jimson

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 01:34:55 PM »
I wish the strat targets had more of a significant role in the game 

Come help us test a similar concept.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,314092.0.html

Offline grizz441

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 01:45:45 PM »
Incredible concept, the strats having strategic value. +1

Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 03:09:10 PM »
I wish the strats were easier to milkrun

Incredible concept, the strats having strategic value. +1

They do. Nobody does it right.

I really do not recall people hitting the old strats for "strategic value" anyway.


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Offline grizz441

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 03:15:48 PM »
They do. Nobody does it right.

I really do not recall people hitting the old strats for "strategic value" anyway.


If players who are trying to win the war are not attacking a strat that would aid them in winning the war then one of two things must be true:

1) The player base has no clue what the strats control therefore do not attack it
2) The player base has decided their effort is better invested in other avenues

Either way, it's the failure of the system for either:

a) Not providing readily available information to the player base which informs of strategic values of said strat
b) Not providing strat with strategic influence warranting additional time to get to them and bomb

So what's your point wrongway, the strats are good the way they are?

Offline Lusche

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 03:23:53 PM »
They do. Nobody does it right.

I really do not recall people hitting the old strats for "strategic value" anyway.


wrongway

They did hit the old sttrats for all reasons from score to strategic impact - because both worked much better back then. Today, the strats are more difficult to reach, much better defended yet at the same time much less worth in both ways.

"They just not do it right" is just a bit oversimplifying. To do it "right" you would now need much more effort than before: Much bigger numbers if players and much more time investment, as you have to flatten the city (much larger target than before) before killing any factory, or the factory will back up  long before you are even back home. Gathering like 20 players for a 2h+ long range mission ain't that easy considering the current MA player numbers and the fact that those players could roll a couple of bases at the same time.

So the strats are currently just not "worth" it if you take everything into account: Time, risk, organization and payoff (score/arena effect). That's particularly sad as the B-29 could finally find a role there, right now it's a bit of a plane looking for a job in the MA...

Apart from that, I do think the redesign of the starts was/is a job just half done. See the strat relocation when a nearby base gets captured by the enemy on a large map . In fact, there is nothing better that can happen to the country, and it's totally undesirable to get that allegedly "key bases" back  :bhead




« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 03:26:50 PM by Lusche »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 03:50:47 PM »
Heaven forbid; the furballers might get upset.  :airplane:

+1 on the suggestion

And

I like to furball but you wont see my heart pump one drop of purple P if the furballers get upset over it.
Defending against such attacks is I guess out of the question as it might make it more like...oh I dont know. Actual WWII air combat where bombers tried to blow things up and fighters tried to stop them. and in response the side flying the bombers upped fighters of their own as escorts to protect against the opposing fighters that were trying to shoot the bombers down.

I know some will say "Well I dont have time to fly to stop bombers.when I only pop on for a quick flight or two"

Somehow I think that I dare say most of the players on at any given time are on for more then just a quick flight

I still say that if your too lazy to try to defend a target. Then you deserve whatever happens to your side
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 03:54:49 PM »
I used to hit the old strats back in the day when they had a real effect. Nowadays they arent worth the trip because they dont have any significant effect on anything. Your better off leveling a field. It takes less time and has a definite impact.

HQ will still be hit more often then any of the other strats because it has a definite impact. Current other strats are pointless to hit.
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 05:12:42 PM »
It's too hard

Which is why no one does it.

I used to hit the old strats back in the day when they had a real effect. Nowadays they arent worth the trip because they dont have any significant effect on anything. Your better off leveling a field. It takes less time and has a definite impact.

HQ will still be hit more often then any of the other strats because it has a definite impact. Current other strats are pointless to hit.

What has changed vis a vis impact? It's still the same, it's just "too Hard".

If players who are trying to win the war are not attacking a strat that would aid them in winning the war then one of two things must be true:

1) The player base has no clue what the strats control therefore do not attack it
2) The player base has decided their effort is better invested in other avenues

Either way, it's the failure of the system for either:

a) Not providing readily available information to the player base which informs of strategic values of said strat
b) Not providing strat with strategic influence warranting additional time to get to them and bomb

So what's your point wrongway, the strats are good the way they are?

1) the same info has always been on the help page. How many bother to read the help page for even the fundamentals?

2) It's easier to invest efforts in other avenues. Instant gratification and instant results. Hitting the strats needs to be done in the proper order, they need to be taken down completely, and then, for them to actually have an effect, you need to pork the corresponding strats on fields.

My point is, nothing has changed about the strats other than:
the strats are more difficult to reach, much better defended

Essentially an individual can no longer take a single gv, Bf110, or set of buffs, and take down a strat all by themselves.

I am truly skeptical that, other than the rare individual that knew the value of doing so, anybody attacked the old strats with any "strategic" intentions. They wanted to blow stuff up with little risk.

Ideas for a fix?

a) Make it worthwhile points wise.
Why are people bombing the middle of cities now? Certainly not in order to capture the city.
It would be better if you could be rewarded for taking it all the way down but I don't see how that could be tracked.

b) System message.
"The Knights Grunt Training has been destroyed".
100% down for a message. Instant gratification.

c) Just more stuff to blow up.
Again, instant gratification.
Give some points. Make it easy. Whether it has a strategic value or not probably won't matter to anyone as long as it blows up reeeeal good.

Strat wishes are typically in the same vein as Mustang mk1A wishes. It's not about an Allison powered Mustang, it's about a Mustang with four 20mm cannons.

Strats have the same impact they did before they were updated. Did anyone want a greater role for Strats then?



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Offline Lusche

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 05:25:02 PM »
Strats have the same impact they did before they were updated. Did anyone want a greater role for Strats then?

Faulty comparison again.
Yes, 100% down strats would have, at that very moment, the same impact. On paper.

You are just ignoring in this conclusion that the terms and conditions have totally changed. Attacking the strats has much lesser impact efficiency and thus strats to play a lesser role in overall MA strategy. If it takes 10 times the effort and (at the same time) at least double the time to have a similar level of impact, when target defense is much better (ack, Me 163's, sheer distance) the role of the strats for MA gameplay is considerable smaller

Right now, at 6:20 pm eastern  we have ~23(!) players per side online in LWO. There is no way to organize a strat raid with enough players to make a difference, because that would completely tie up the majority of one side for at least one hour (if it were a large map, it could take 2+).


It's not that nobody knows how to do it. It's just that you can hardly do it these days anymore.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 05:48:52 PM by Lusche »
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Role of Strats
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 06:42:09 PM »
Faulty comparison again.
Yes, 100% down strats would have, at that very moment, the same impact. On paper.

You are just ignoring in this conclusion that the terms and conditions have totally changed. Attacking the strats has much lesser impact efficiency and thus strats to play a lesser role in overall MA strategy. If it takes 10 times the effort and (at the same time) at least double the time to have a similar level of impact, when target defense is much better (ack, Me 163's, sheer distance) the role of the strats for MA gameplay is considerable smaller

Right now, at 6:20 pm eastern  we have ~23(!) players per side online in LWO. There is no way to organize a strat raid with enough players to make a difference, because that would completely tie up the majority of one side for at least one hour (if it were a large map, it could take 2+).


It's not that nobody knows how to do it. It's just that you can hardly do it these days anymore.


Again, it comes down to "it's too hard".

163 defense is only available when "Strats have retreated to the rear".

Even when strats are on the coast, can't remember the map, no one is attacking them and, in that case, it's not "too hard".

Another solution idea: Base strat down time on % of main strat down.
For example, City is 25% down, it takes 25% more time to resupply the damaged Grunt Training.
AAA factory is 50% down, it takes 50% more supplies to resupply the base strat.

Isn't it an all-or-nothing situation now? Strat needs to be 100% down before it affects resupply?



wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay