New Car!

[Penguin]

Let's recap:

Audi is going to break the bank with repairs
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult

-Penguin

[MaSonZ]

Let's recap:

Audi is going to break the bank with repairs
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult

-Penguin

youve eben paying attention. 

[Penguin]

You guys are helping a lot!  I'll be sure to show this my mom and dad before they make that $40,000+ decision.

-Penguin

[Babalonian]

Let's recap:

Audi is going to break the bank with repairs (I have no personal experience so I can't argue, but they do seem to take a lot of maintenance IMHO (either agressively investing in it preventively or having to pay for it as things arise down the line))
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements (only because she had/has an Accord, very tire-wear friendly vehicles - IE: with proper rotations/maintenance she can get 3-4 years per set of 4 tires, easy.  going to AWD she'll get 2 if she's lucky, it's just gonna be really noticable is all I'm saying.  and because traction is her thing, worn out tires would be a turn-off.)
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult (I wouldn't say more difficult, lets just say equal (which can be a surprise to people, unfortunatley sometimes at a most dangerous moment).  It could be a nightmare if you can't afford new tires until spring.  And also AWD/4x4 packages are just inheritantley heavier/more-mass than 2WD systems in the same exact car: IE: a brake test on an unplowed road, AWD-car is going 40mph and weights 4,700 pounds, 2WD car is going 40mph and weighs 4,450 pounds, which one will stop in the shortest amount of distance?)

-Penguin

[Tigger29]

Here's the thing with All-Wheel-Drive and Four-Wheel-Drive vehicles.  While they will help you to maintain traction during adverse conditions (snow, offroading, etc) they really do little to help with ice.  The reason why is real simple - ICE IS SLICK!

AWD refers to how many wheels have the ability to transfer power from the engine to the pavement.  On the Accord for example, it's Front-Wheel-Drive - meaning only the front wheels can drive the car.  The two wheels in the rear simply free-spin and are not even connected to the engine.  Rear-Wheel-Drive cars are similar, except in those cases it's the front wheels that don't contribute.  All-Wheel-Drive cars can use any (or all) of the wheels to transfer power from the engine to the road.

AWD helps with traction during acceleration because it can evenly distribute  the power among all four wheels... reducing the amount of wheel slippage.  It can also transfer the power that would normally go to a wheel that has no traction to a wheel that does have traction.  This is very good news if you need quick, stable acceleration - or if you need to navigate through extreme conditions (once again, such as deep snow or offroading conditions).

What AWD does *NOT* help with is sliding.  Most accidents on icy roads are due to cornering or slowing down - NOT accelerating.  When there is no power being transferred to the wheels, then AWD makes no difference whatsoever.  Instead one must rely on other technologies such as stability control, Anti-lock brakes, and advanced tire technologies (such as used in specific snow/ice tires).  Sometimes advances in these technologies go hand-in-hand with cars that have AWD (Such as the Audi) but this has little to do with the actual AWD itself.  Another thing people almost never mention is driving experience and driver's education.  Personally I believe that a driver who knows how to handle a vehicle under adverse conditions will be MUCH more effective than any of these advanced technologies.

It is a common misconception that AWD/4WD vehicles are safer and handle better on snowy/icy roads.  This is simply NOT TRUE!  If anything else it often installs a false sense of security in the driver which can lead them to push the envelope too much and actually increase the risk of an accident.  If your parents are considering an AWD vehicle based SOLELY on the presence of snow/ice on an interstate for a few months out of the year then they are most likely going to be sorely disappointed.

And as previously mentioned, AWD vehicles get less fuel economy than their Two-Wheel-Drive counterparts.  Especially with the price of gas these days this can lead to them being significantly more expensive to operate.  If money is an issue then perhaps your parents should consider purchasing a good set of snow/ice tires to use in the Winter months instead of purchasing a whole new car.

[CAP1]

I might be a bit bias, but you can always look for a good used Jaguar X-Type.

very expensive to repair/maintain....and it WILL need repairs

[CAP1]

AWD is a huge drain on MPG, we're talking huge compared to 2WD.  Also tire wear, not hideous, but again _huge_ in comparison to a 2WD accord where you can rotate the tries a few times and be good as new for another year or so.  

How would the AWD make her driving safer and avoid the hazards she has faced before?  

From experience, they're not safer on the road than my 2WD civics or accords have been, short of snow/ice and even then you're gonna be going slow (see my next point).  They accelerate faster because they usually have larger powerplants, but in terms of safety that's only one good in trade for a number of bads.  An old sayign with 4x4s that is also true with AWDs, is that they sure can get going, but they're not as easy to get to stop.  This is multiplied in bad weather... sure the AWD and 4x4s don't need chains to get going 30-35 down a road covered with an inch of ice/slush underneath 5 inches of snow... they will however need just as much room/time/space to stop/slow down as a 2WD (and this is why I use chains on my AWD in bad weather sometimes even if I don't have to, acceleration never a problem, slowing down and braking though if the road hasn't been plowed in a while...).  And if you didn't buy new tires before the winter, be it rain or snow or ice, it can be worse than a 2WD with fresh tires.  Again, they are heavier and they wear down tires faster, so they do not stop under any condition better than a 2WD vehicle on any given sunday IMHO.


I'm in the process of inheriting my mother's '94 CRV w/ AWD, she just picked up a '11 CRV w/ 2WD.  It actualy handles on the road a lot better than the old one (handles fine offroad too, but doesn't have the AWD traction or stiffer suspention of the older CRV).

actually, awd carsd are a bit better.

 customer of mine has a wrx putting as little over 500hp to the tires. he LOVES driving that in the rain, and light snow. says it goes exactly where he points it, even when he's on the throttle.

[CAP1]

Let's recap:

Audi is going to break the bank with repairs
AWD will eat tyres for breakfast, and needs regular replacements
AWD helps you start, but makes stopping more difficult

-Penguin

kept properly rotated, aligned and assuming normal driving habits awd won't hurt your tires that bad. the pitfall is that on some models, you cannot replace only 1 or 2 at a time...some models, you have to do 4 or none.

[CAP1]

Here's the thing with All-Wheel-Drive and Four-Wheel-Drive vehicles.  While they will help you to maintain traction during adverse conditions (snow, offroading, etc) they really do little to help with ice.  The reason why is real simple - ICE IS SLICK!

AWD refers to how many wheels have the ability to transfer power from the engine to the pavement.  On the Accord for example, it's Front-Wheel-Drive - meaning only the front wheels can drive the car.  The two wheels in the rear simply free-spin and are not even connected to the engine.  Rear-Wheel-Drive cars are similar, except in those cases it's the front wheels that don't contribute.  All-Wheel-Drive cars can use any (or all) of the wheels to transfer power from the engine to the road.

AWD helps with traction during acceleration because it can evenly distribute  the power among all four wheels... reducing the amount of wheel slippage.  It can also transfer the power that would normally go to a wheel that has no traction to a wheel that does have traction.  This is very good news if you need quick, stable acceleration - or if you need to navigate through extreme conditions (once again, such as deep snow or offroading conditions).

What AWD does *NOT* help with is sliding.  Most accidents on icy roads are due to cornering or slowing down - NOT accelerating.  When there is no power being transferred to the wheels, then AWD makes no difference whatsoever.  Instead one must rely on other technologies such as stability control, Anti-lock brakes, and advanced tire technologies (such as used in specific snow/ice tires).  Sometimes advances in these technologies go hand-in-hand with cars that have AWD (Such as the Audi) but this has little to do with the actual AWD itself.  Another thing people almost never mention is driving experience and driver's education.  Personally I believe that a driver who knows how to handle a vehicle under adverse conditions will be MUCH more effective than any of these advanced technologies.

It is a common misconception that AWD/4WD vehicles are safer and handle better on snowy/icy roads.  This is simply NOT TRUE!  If anything else it often installs a false sense of security in the driver which can lead them to push the envelope too much and actually increase the risk of an accident.  If your parents are considering an AWD vehicle based SOLELY on the presence of snow/ice on an interstate for a few months out of the year then they are most likely going to be sorely disappointed.

And as previously mentioned, AWD vehicles get less fuel economy than their Two-Wheel-Drive counterparts.  Especially with the price of gas these days this can lead to them being significantly more expensive to operate.  If money is an issue then perhaps your parents should consider purchasing a good set of snow/ice tires to use in the Winter months instead of purchasing a whole new car.

 i think you already know this.....but there is NOTHING streetable that will drive on just ice. even the blizzak tires depend on that thin coating of water sitting atop the ice. 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I'm sorry but we get 6 months a year in icy/snowy conditions down here and I drive 1000km a week in all weathers so I think I can speak from experience.

The safety comparison in extreme slick conditions:

First - get m+s rated tires for winter. This makes a HUGE difference in traction and safety in all cars. Cheapest life insurance you can get. Conti winter contact etc.



Second, ranking in snow goes like this worst to best:

RWD
FWD
AWD

AWD is simply superior because it can give you acceleration to take you out of harms way in interstates etc when you're about to be swiped by a semi for example. Or when you need passing performance on the road. The AWD makes the car run much more stable in ice grooves etc. giving a serious boost to drive comfort in long winter hauls. The myth about awd stopping worse is just that, a myth. If anything awd may fool the driver into thinking it's not so slippery and then surprise when braking - but an awd stops just as well as equally weighted 2wd car.

Older awd cars had major stability problems because the awd requires differentials in all axles and this can cause trouble when sliding (you're actually supposed to accelerate to get the wheels turning if they lock up, a feat unimaginable by a panicing woman) but modern traction control takes care of that. Most advanced traction controls can actually apply power to the wheels instead of just stupidly braking.

[Bronk]

Ford Fusion AWD or Taurus AWD

Then again... I am bias.

[Dragon]

actually, awd carsd are a bit better.

 customer of mine has a wrx putting as little over 500hp to the tires. he LOVES driving that in the rain, and light snow. says it goes exactly where he points it, even when he's on the throttle.

True, awd will even be able to pull out of some slides if driven properly.  But, and this is huge, the driver needs to be able to fight the desire to mash on the brakes or crank the wheel and instead, apply some light throttle so the tires can correct the vehicle.  Most people just can't do it!

Case in point, we were traveling through the hills of PA last year around christmas, on a downhill with a left turn below, the logging truck in front of us started sliding on the hard packed snow covered street.  I hit the brakes lightly and they just slid, the truck ended up sliding sideways into the ditch up against the rock wall but I was able to hit the gas, get the truck corrected and get around the corner ok.  

The trucker waved us on as he knew there was nothing we could do to help, but my sister in the passenger seat, who's Ranger I was driving said that she never would have thought to hit the gas and probably would have ended up sliding in behind or into the truck.

Older awd cars had major stability problems because the awd requires differentials in all axles and this can cause trouble when sliding (you're actually supposed to accelerate to get the wheels turning if they lock up, a feat unimaginable by a panicing woman) but modern traction control takes care of that. Most advanced traction controls can actually apply power to the wheels instead of just stupidly braking.

This.

[MaSonZ]

True, awd will even be able to pull out of some slides if driven properly.  But, and this is huge, the driver needs to be able to fight the desire to mash on the brakes or crank the wheel and instead, apply some light throttle so the tires can correct the vehicle.  Most people just can't do it!

Case in point, we were traveling through the hills of PA last year around christmas, on a downhill with a left turn below, the logging truck in front of us started sliding on the hard packed snow covered street.  I hit the brakes lightly and they just slid, the truck ended up sliding sideways into the ditch up against the rock wall but I was able to hit the gas, get the truck corrected and get around the corner ok.  

The trucker waved us on as he knew there was nothing we could do to help, but my sister in the passenger seat, who's Ranger I was driving said that she never would have thought to hit the gas and probably would have ended up sliding in behind or into the truck.


This.

why i love RWD.

but i have FWD.. 

[dedalos]

IF you're in the usa, avoid audi at all cost. they suck here. they have non-stop problems, as could be attested to by the most recent customer of mine, whom i recommended he not buy his a6 quattro. it's a 2001 with only 101k on it.......and he's spent nearly 6k on it in the last 5 months. he's not the only one.

 if you want a decent, reliable good awd car, go with a subaru. feel free to pm me with any questions. 

You do realize they don;t make the same car 10 years latter nor does it come out of the factory with only 101K miles on it right.  Your one customer does not represent the universe.   

[MaSonZ]

You do realize they don;t make the same car 10 years latter nor does it come out of the factory with only 101K miles on it right.  Your one customer does not represent the universe.   

got a buddy whose had issue after issue with his audi....