WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER ARMAMENT EFFECTIVENESS. Just an FYI-

[SmokinLoon]

Just an FYI-

I've had this link for quite sometime, I'm not sure how I came across it but it has a lot of good information for reference.  The "home" link at the bottom of the page will open up the home page (duh!) and give you many more links to access.  LOTS of good info.  Some of the ".50's don't do damage like they should" crowd might learn something if they read up.  

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

EDIT: this link alone provides a lot of insight to the different 20mm cartridges we have in game:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotable2.htm

[BnZs]

This report concludes that .50s are not very efficient in terms of the ratio of their installed weight to destructive capacity.

It says nothing about what should happen to an airplane when 6 to 8 .50s of them open up on it.

That said, I think the .50 cals in AHII are just about right, unlike in Il2, where, I kid you not, they are no more effective than .30s and you can expend your ammo load bringing down a Zero.

Just an FYI-

I've had this link for quite sometime, I'm not sure how I came across it but it has a lot of good information for reference.  The "home" link at the bottom of the page will open up the home page (duh!) and give you many more links to access.  LOTS of good info.  Some of the ".50's don't do damage like they should" crowd might learn something if they read up.  

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

EDIT: this link alone provides a lot of insight to the different 20mm cartridges we have in game:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotable2.htm

[R 105]

 Reading about the 50cal and firing 10s of thousands of rounds of 50cal ain't the same thing. Anyone one who served in our military and had the privilege to crank up the M-2 knows what I am talking about. It is still effective against thin skinned targets like cars or say planes out to 1500 meters. I didn't get my information reading it is some graph chart on the web.

[SmokinLoon]

Reading about the 50cal and firing 10s of thousands of rounds of 50cal ain't the same thing. Anyone one who served in our military and had the privilege to crank up the M-2 knows what I am talking about. It is still effective against thin skinned targets like cars or say planes out to 1500 meters. I didn't get my information reading it is some graph chart on the web.

The charts simply put it on paper and give the actual physics of the cartridge.  Simply saying "this gun kicks ass!" is not measurable.     I know, you know, and many others know that the power of that .50 caliber slug is impressive.  Likewise, most of us know that the medium that the slug impacts is just as important as the slug itself.  Hence, the very reason the FMJ's need to be massed in an area to do damage enough to cause ruptures, fractures, etc. 

[IrishOne]

This report concludes that .50s are not very efficient in terms of the ratio of their installed weight to destructive capacity.

It says nothing about what should happen to an airplane when 6 to 8 .50s of them open up on it.

That said, I think the .50 cals in AHII are just about right, unlike in Il2, where, I kid you not, they are no more effective than .30s and you can expend your ammo load bringing down a Zero.

sometimes in IL2 i barely nick a zeke with .50's and he fireballs.   like in here, it depends on where ya hit em 

[BnZs]

sometimes in IL2 i barely nick a zeke with .50's and he fireballs.   like in here, it depends on where ya hit em 

Do you have "realistic" gunnery turned off?

And the Zero is the most fragile. I have literally sat on the tail of unmaneuvering Fw-190s and emptied a clip in them at convergence, for no more than some smoke.

[IrishOne]

Do you have "realistic" gunnery turned off?

    absolutely not.     i have everything set to realistic, except for the icons

[Karnak]

Reading about the 50cal and firing 10s of thousands of rounds of 50cal ain't the same thing. Anyone one who served in our military and had the privilege to crank up the M-2 knows what I am talking about. It is still effective against thin skinned targets like cars or say planes out to 1500 meters. I didn't get my information reading it is some graph chart on the web.

Now imagine what a 20mm cannon does in comparison.

[smoe]

Don't forget this game doesn't simulate hits on the controls. These planes are packed to brim with control equipment (wires, levers, electrical, hydraulic, etc.). One bullet in the fuselage can do a lot of damage. The possibilities are limitless.

[Karnak]

Don't forget this game doesn't simulate hits on the controls. These planes are packed to brim with control equipment (wires, levers, electrical, hydraulic, etc.). One bullet in the fuselage can do a lot of damage. The possibilities are limitless.

Certain areas of them are, other areas have lots of empty space other than structural members.  It really depends on where the hit happens.

[SmokinLoon]

Don't forget this game doesn't simulate hits on the controls. These planes are packed to brim with control equipment (wires, levers, electrical, hydraulic, etc.). One bullet in the fuselage can do a lot of damage. The possibilities are limitless.

HTC may have taken that into consideration when they modeled damage to the individual control pieces.  Only HTC knows for sure.  I'd like to see variations of damage, instead of "all or none", I wish there was a way to "reduce" the damages done to aircraft and gv's in AH.  The all or none is a bit drastic of a damage model. 

All one has to do is look at the pictures of damaged aircraft from WWII.  There are lots of photos of aircraft missing half a rudder, or half an elevator, etc.  I've been told personally about bombers taking damage no where near a turret that had been knocked out, meaning the hydro or electrical system had been knocked out or damaged. 

Evidently there is a sneak peak of sorts in the WWI arena and the WWI aircraft with regards to how the future damage model in the WWII arenas are going to be.     

[JOACH1M]

    absolutely not.     i have everything set to realistic, except for the icons

You play il2?


What do u like better?

[LThunderpocket]

Reading about the 50cal and firing 10s of thousands of rounds of 50cal ain't the same thing. Anyone one who served in our military and had the privilege to crank up the M-2 knows what I am talking about. It is still effective against thin skinned targets like cars or say planes out to 1500 meters. I didn't get my information reading it is some graph chart on the web.

M-2s will punch through cynder block walls and kill 3 guys standing in a line behind it,and thats using full metal jackets.with incindiary rounds once it gets through the other side of the wall its like a shotgun blast and anything on the other side is going to die or suffer serious wounds.

but in comparison,take the bigger 20mm and do the same thing.now you are putting bigger holes in walls and people,but the penetration might not be as good as the 50.that is because the 20mm is alot heavier and slower(even more so at long dist.)its all about kinetic energy and the powder of the shell you are using

[SmokinLoon]

M-2s will punch through cynder block walls and kill 3 guys standing in a line behind it,and thats using full metal jackets.with incindiary rounds once it gets through the other side of the wall its like a shotgun blast and anything on the other side is going to die or suffer serious wounds.

but in comparison,take the bigger 20mm and do the same thing.now you are putting bigger holes in walls and people,but the penetration might not be as good as the 50.that is because the 20mm is alot heavier and slower(even more so at long dist.)its all about kinetic energy and the powder of the shell you are using

Well... um... no not really.   

Grab a book.  Read up on how .50 cal incendiary rounds work and how they differ from FMJ's.  Read up on WHY 20mm cannon rounds behave like they do upon impact.  The 20mm rounds perform as they do for a reason and it is not because the projectiles are "heavier and slower".       

[Karnak]

M-2s will punch through cynder block walls and kill 3 guys standing in a line behind it,and thats using full metal jackets.with incindiary rounds once it gets through the other side of the wall its like a shotgun blast and anything on the other side is going to die or suffer serious wounds.

but in comparison,take the bigger 20mm and do the same thing.now you are putting bigger holes in walls and people,but the penetration might not be as good as the 50.that is because the 20mm is alot heavier and slower(even more so at long dist.)its all about kinetic energy and the powder of the shell you are using

880m/s is 880m/s.  That one is 12.7mm and the other is 20mm and heavier doesn't change the fact that they are both ~880m/s at the muzzle.  This is comparing the Browning M2 .50 to the Hispano Mk II.

At 200 yards, 90 degree impact, the .50 has 20mm of armor penetration, the Hispano II AP has 27mm of armor penetration in the same conditions.