N1K2 Flaps

[PJ_Godzilla]

I'm not hitching my wagon to anything. You're one of the biggest jokes in AH and that somehow escapes you.

Now see, when I read Krusty's note, I thought, "you really don't NEED to defend yourself." The "audience" here will recognize if you're being personally attacked and willl likely not tolerate it.

Then you have to publish this, Slash. You may feel this way about Krusty but I see little purpose to going after him in this manner. Stay on topic, as has Karnak. There's no point in engaging in character assassination here. He's obviously already in defensive mode. All this kind of thing does is dig the trench deeper.

NO. I  want Krusty to answer fact-related questions and to prove/disprove the merits of his arguments based on logic and fact. His character is another matter - and I'd caution anyone against making snap judgments about same based on the interactions within what is a relatively insignificant and obscure backwater of a BBS. 

[Slash27]

I'm not going to apologize for it. It would be nice to read a thread without some bs involved in it espeacially his. I won't enage him anymore in your thread and I admit it served no purpose to insult him but he just wear real thin real fast. And for the record my judgement of him was formed over the course of several years, not this thread.

[Wmaker]

It serves no particular purpose, that's true, but enough bs is enough bs.

[nrshida]

Note: The following is speculation on my part - just to clarify - and more of a 'what if' discussion (since we have so little information about how this system operated):-

Maybe the problem is the use of the word 'switch' which makes us think of U-shaped tubes of Mercury with electrical contacts etc. leaving us wondering if it measured angle of attack or G-force etc.

However, what if the Mercury 'switch' wasn't a switch at all but a Manometer, then you could monitor the differential pressure between the upper and lower surfaces of the wing and deploy flaps according to the magnitude of difference. I believe the flaps where electro-hydraulic so could be deployed in an analogue fashion, rather than the AH step-based approach.

Is that theoretically sound?

[PJ_Godzilla]

However, what if the Mercury 'switch' wasn't a switch at all but a Manometer, then you could monitor the differential pressure between the upper and lower surfaces of the wing and deploy flaps according to the magnitude of difference. I believe the flaps where electro-hydraulic so could be deployed in an analogue fashion, rather than the AH step-based approach.

Is that theoretically sound?

I don't know and am also speculating but this strikes me as counterintuitive, given that, at higher pressure differentials upper/lower, you're making more lift - as in higher aofa/speed. OTOH, diifferentials left/right would signal a turn. At the same time, the idea of the mercury switch is also somewhat troublesome to me, if the turn is coordinated.

[W7LPNRICK]

I've read a lot of this thread with the same bewilderment as when it started. Why do you guys care enough to argue about this relentlessly? I've tried, but I can't make myself care enough to have an opinion either way. Oh, I've got a life away from this game....  

[mtnman]

I've read a lot of this thread with the same bewilderment as when it started. Why do you guys care enough to argue about this relentlessly? I've tried, but I can't make myself care enough to have an opinion either way. Oh, I've got a life away from this game....  

Yet you cared enough to read the thread and even went through the extra effort to respond to it...  Interesting.

Maybe your life away from the game isn't as glorious as you make it sound?

When you read through the thread, which part made you think an "opinion" was being asked for?

The thread began as questioning whether the N1K flaps acted the same in game as in RL.  It got into a side-track argument, but has come back to a discussion on how the flap system worked in RL.  That portion of the thread doesn't ask for "opinion".

Are you stating you have no opinion on the argument aspect?

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

TOPIC

"N1K2 Flaps" 



Just in case you smack tards fergot.

[Wmaker]

Instrumentation schematics of the N1K's flap system:

[wells]

Perhaps it works the same as in the J2M3, from an article in July, 1971 Air Enthusiast

Manoeuvre flaps of Fowler type are fitted, and are controlled by a safety switch and trigger on the stick.  These are extended only when the trigger is depressed and retract immediately the trigger is released, and their operation is superior to any used on our aircraft.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Yet you cared enough to read the thread and even went through the extra effort to respond to it...  Interesting.

Maybe your life away from the game isn't as glorious as you make it sound?

When you read through the thread, which part made you think an "opinion" was being asked for?

The thread began as questioning whether the N1K flaps acted the same in game as in RL.  It got into a side-track argument, but has come back to a discussion on how the flap system worked in RL.  That portion of the thread doesn't ask for "opinion".

Are you stating you have no opinion on the argument aspect?

I was out of town for a few days and NOT checking anything online. However, mtnman, I commend you on your ability to understand the written word - and contrast your post with the self-serving posturing that engendered it. Thank you.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Instrumentation schematics of the N1K's flap system:
(Image removed from quote.)

Maker, should I have my wife translate..? What a stupid question. I'll put her on to it. I want to know, asked originally... Thanks for the source material .

[Wmaker]

Maker, should I have my wife translate..? What a stupid question. I'll put her on to it. I want to know, asked originally... Thanks for the source material .

It would be awesome if she could but I'm afraid there's quite a bit of pretty technical vocabulary to translate. There's quite a bit more text with those schematics.

I'm hardly an expert on hydraulics, transducers or electrics for that matter. Stupid me has taken the classes but they were years ago...

Anyway, it looks like there's sort of spring-mass type of acceleration transducer there (masses M1 and M2) which at least partly controls the hydraulic cylinders of the flaps. On the left it looks like there's some sort of cam-cylinder solution and electric circuit which together with the acceleration data provides control voltage and changes in it probably drive the cylinders.

I'll send you more of this stuff a bit later via PM.

[Rolex]

Here's a quick and dirty translation:

1. The top left diagram is the automatic electrical operation schematic. Pressure from the pitot tube raises/lowers a hydraulic piston 2. Relay A is used for flap extension and Relay B is for retraction. The relay at the bottom of pressure Tank 1 retracts flaps automatically from pitot pressure only if electrical power is lost.

2. The blue drawing below shows the flap extension piston and guide rail mechanism.

3. The top right diagram is the mechanical operation schematic. At the top is an oil tank and high-speed pump that provides boost for the flap lever (there is no indication of a switch, it is a lever). The blue labeled L and l devices are levers with M as counterweights and the springs are obvious. l3 path is flap extension and l4 is retraction oil path. The pilot can switch between high and low speed flap operation using an arm.

[PJ_Godzilla]

I'm well past the hardware portion of my career as well but the pitot signaling is only going to be good for determining speed, be it based on dynamic, statis, or differential pressure. I'm thinking the one on the right looks more like a something that uses a lateral g signal.

I'll see if I can get a little of the "written" portion out of the wife this pm. I'm off this week, she's on.