Sad day for the RAF

[F22RaptorDude]

if i recall from reading, aren't they networked together, also through the satallite system? if so, they can.....and eventually will be hacked.

I don't recall them being linked in a way that could over ride the controls, and if they did I think the pilot could turn off the comupter and land it manually, I recall the F18 can land if the computers fail using only elevator and throttle. I can't recall facts off the top of my mind, Its been forever since I read those articles.

[Penguin]

we have choppers perfectly capable of this. and why in the world are you stuck on a single aircraft doing a weeklong sortie?  i don't know what a "red queen's paradox is.

 imagine if the uav's got hacked though.........how useless they'd be....in fact, how harmful they could become. that could also go for the f22, and the f35. can you imagine cruising along at 1.5mach, and suddenly, your aircraft just shuts down, and falls out of the sky? i know it's far fetched....but it can happen.....
 an a10 can be kind of surgical........not like the choppers we have, but it can do pretty well.

A red queen's paradox is a situation like this:

Bob has a 9mm gun, and wants to shoot Alice
Alice therefore develops a bullet proof vest that can defeat the 9mm round
Bob adopts that vest, and develops a .45 caliber pistol
Alice repeats her action, and adopts the .45 caliber pistol

This repeats ad infinitum, and no advantage is gained.

How am I 'stuck' on the long sortie capability, I've also mentioned its precision and ability to use multiple pilots who can operate according to the book and their own ideas without fear of death.  Remember, you wouldn't just have one, you'd have dozens!  The sky would be black with them, and battlefield intelligence would reach an all-time high.

You bring up an interesting point, F22.  Since almost all military aircraft rely on fly-by-wire technologies, if the system were hacked, the results would be even more deadly than a UAV network failing.

-Penguin

[F22RaptorDude]

But I know those air craft have to have the ability to fly manually if they had too, you should never rely to much on a computer

[CAP1]

from knowing some pilots....one of whom was killed 2 years ago...........they do not fear death. not when they are piloting the absolute best aircraft on the planet.
 and the one that got killed 2 years ago, didn't die in action. some drunk bastage threw a gto at him.

[CAP1]

But I know those air craft have to have the ability to fly manually if they had too, you should never rely to much on a computer

it's not the "fly by wire" that's worrysome. it's the being networked together that is. if information travels in and out of a computer, it can be hacked. if that computer can be hacked, it can control whatever it is that is desired by the hacker.

 the f/a18's and f16's aren't networked.

[F22RaptorDude]

This makes me think, R/C ground vehicles are better because they rely on a ever so changing frequency from a controller making them harder to take over, where as with UAV's it seems like it would be easier. With more control you could have a safer environment, to fight in on the ground, and have manned planes still in the air.

Again i'm thinking deeply about this, what happens if the enemy can capture a robot, and reprogram it to attack us, or make duplicates?

it's not the "fly by wire" that's worrysome. it's the being networked together that is. if information travels in and out of a computer, it can be hacked. if that computer can be hacked, it can control whatever it is that is desired by the hacker.

 the f/a18's and f16's aren't networked.

That makes sense, also I heard like I said that the F-18 can fly without a computer using elevator and throttle only. Problem with the F-22 and F-35 is they are impossible to fly without help from a computer keeping it stable. Its like I can't win

[Penguin]

UAV's are not networked, their information goes straight back to the control center.  Why would fly-by-wire not worry you if you worry that computers may be hacked?  It doesn't have to take control of the fighter, only do something that is very costly, such as firing off every weapon in the plane.

Pilots do not fear death, eh?  Unless one is mentally unstable, (in which case one would be denied military service), then one will fear death.  Indoctrination can reduce that fear, but it can never be eliminated completely.  Also, there is far less stress when one isn't being subjected to G-loads and the other stresses of manned flight.

Finally, having multiple pilots availible greatly reduces pilot fatigue, as one can work scheduled hours (for the most part), instead of the highly demanding schedule that manned aircraft pilots face.

This makes me think, R/C ground vehicles are better because they rely on a ever so changing frequency from a controller making them harder to take over, where as with UAV's it seems like it would be easier. With more control you could have a safer environment, to fight in on the ground, and have manned planes still in the air.

Again i'm thinking deeply about this, what happens if the enemy can capture a robot, and reprogram it to attack us, or make duplicates?


That makes sense, also I heard like I said that the F-18 can fly without a computer using elevator and throttle only. Problem with the F-22 and F-35 is they are impossible to fly without help from a computer keeping it stable. Its like I can't win

I'd rethink that statement, the anti-virus software that protects UAV's isn't just the kind you get and BestBuy.  UAV's also create a safe environment, by raining death from above on demand.

-Penguin

[F22RaptorDude]

UAV's are not networked, their information goes straight back to the control center.  Why would fly-by-wire not worry you if you worry that computers may be hacked?  It doesn't have to take control of the fighter, only do something that is very costly, such as firing off every weapon in the plane.

Pilots do not fear death, eh?  Unless one is mentally unstable, (in which case one would be denied military service), then one will fear death.  Indoctrination can reduce that fear, but it can never be eliminated completely.  Also, there is far less stress when one isn't being subjected to G-loads and the other stresses of manned flight.

Finally, having multiple pilots availible greatly reduces pilot fatigue, as one can work scheduled hours (for the most part), instead of the highly demanding schedule that manned aircraft pilots face.
I'd rethink that statement, the anti-virus software that protects UAV's isn't just the kind you get and BestBuy.  UAV's also create a safe environment, by raining death from above on demand.

-Penguin

Hackers will find a way, they get tougher and tougher to keep out every year.

[Penguin]

Hackers are like mice, if one can build a better mouse trap, then you world will beat a path to one's door.

-Penguin

[F22RaptorDude]

Hackers are like mice, if one can build a better mouse trap, then you world will beat a path to one's door.

-Penguin

Eventually the mice will learn how to get the cheese without killing themselves though.

[CAP1]

UAV's are not networked, their information goes straight back to the control center.  Why would fly-by-wire not worry you if you worry that computers may be hacked?  It doesn't have to take control of the fighter, only do something that is very costly, such as firing off every weapon in the plane.

Pilots do not fear death, eh?  Unless one is mentally unstable, (in which case one would be denied military service), then one will fear death.  Indoctrination can reduce that fear, but it can never be eliminated completely.  Also, there is far less stress when one isn't being subjected to G-loads and the other stresses of manned flight.

Finally, having multiple pilots availible greatly reduces pilot fatigue, as one can work scheduled hours (for the most part), instead of the highly demanding schedule that manned aircraft pilots face.
I'd rethink that statement, the anti-virus software that protects UAV's isn't just the kind you get and BestBuy.  UAV's also create a safe environment, by raining death from above on demand.

-Penguin

perhaps i should rephrase........everyone fears death. i do not think our pilots climb into their aircraft, fearing death from the actions they are about to go perform.

 fly by wire such as the f16 ot the f/a18 do not communicate with another computer anywhere. the raptor(i think) and the jsf(i think) communicate with each other through networks, sending information to and from satellites. this information can be hacked. control could possibly be effected through these systems.

 uav's may not be networked to each other, but they are networked to the base station where they're being flown from. same thing....signal to the satellite, then to the uav.....so, yes, it could also be taken over.
 and forget anti virus. there are thousands of people whose sole job is to try to hack our systems. most of those are people from countries that hate us.

[Penguin]

perhaps i should rephrase........everyone fears death. i do not think our pilots climb into their aircraft, fearing death from the actions they are about to go perform.

 fly by wire such as the f16 ot the f/a18 do not communicate with another computer anywhere. the raptor(i think) and the jsf(i think) communicate with each other through networks, sending information to and from satellites. this information can be hacked. control could possibly be effected through these systems.

 uav's may not be networked to each other, but they are networked to the base station where they're being flown from. same thing....signal to the satellite, then to the uav.....so, yes, it could also be taken over.
and forget anti virus. there are thousands of people whose sole job is to try to hack our systems. most of those are people from countries that hate us.

If you are so confident that our UAV system will be hacked, why hasn't it been?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

-Penguin

[CAP1]

well...that's simple to answer. they haven't figured it out. yet.

[F22RaptorDude]

well...that's simple to answer. they haven't figured it out. yet.

But they are trying I'm sure right?

[CAP1]

But they are trying I'm sure right?

 of course. china employs thousands whose sole job is to try to get into critical us systems. you don't think this would include uplinks such as these? can you imagine how valuable it would be to them, should they come up with a system to take control of even a single drone for even just an hour or two? do you think there'd be any organizations willing to pay handsomely for such a capability?