Sad day for the RAF

[Penguin]

FA-18 Super Hornet.  It's a tried and tested design with no new infrastructure needed to sustain it.  Face it, the U.S.S.R. no longer exists, and China loves our money.  To continue to build our military in order to fight a non-existent "Opfor" (e.g., Soviet Russia or China) is a waste of time.  Look at how war has changed, it is no longer fought on a massive scale, it is fought by small units.  We didn't kill Osama Bin Laden with a tank shell, but rather the 5.56X45mm bullet of a Navy SEAL's rifle.

Also, the fundamental ideas of war have changed.  Our enemy is not large or well equipped, but rather small, elusive and crafty.  The need for submarines has passed, as has the need for tanks and manned air-combat fighters.  The new opfor no longer has tanks, ships, large cities, or military aircraft of any kind.

-Penguin

[CAP1]

i was actually gonna fall back on that, and the f-16. both of these while old, are pretty hard to top. i think the f16 is still considered one of the best fighters in the world.

[Nypsy]

but seriously what would you suggest?

The sad thing is the F-16 and F18 Super are all that's out there, both old but still viable designs.

At least with those planes after you drop your bombs you can dogfight. After you drop the bombs from an F-35 it's just a dog with no fight.

I am afraid that so much has been invested in the F-35 that it will be forced down the services throats.

[Penguin]

Except there is no need to dogfight, because there are no planes to!  Manned aircraft are the way of the past, UAV's are the way of the future.  Each one costs about a tenth of a manned fighter, so they can be deployed in hordes.

-Penguin

[Nypsy]

Except there is no need to dogfight, because there are no planes to!  Manned aircraft are the way of the past, UAV's are the way of the future.  Each one costs about a tenth of a manned fighter, so they can be deployed in hordes.

-Penguin

Unmanned for certain missions sure, but the past has shown that you can't predict the future. We shall see.

[CAP1]

Except there is no need to dogfight, because there are no planes to!  Manned aircraft are the way of the past, UAV's are the way of the future.  Each one costs about a tenth of a manned fighter, so they can be deployed in hordes.

-Penguin

someone thought that about in the 60's, and the phantom minus guns was born. then they learned otherwise.

[RTHolmes]

The sad thing is the F-16 and F18 Super are all that's out there, both old but still viable designs.

yeah its a shame that the US is the only country that makes mil aircraft, it would be nice to have more options.

[Penguin]

someone thought that about in the 60's, and the phantom minus guns was born. then they learned otherwise.

Let me elaborate.  There is no enemy airforce, therefore there is no need to further develop air-to-air capabilities.

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Let me elaborate.  There is no enemy airforce, therefore there is no need to further develop air-to-air capabilities.

-Penguin

there are plenty of enemy air forces.

 do you think the north vietnamese were the only ones flying those migs? do you really think something like that could not easily happen today?

[Golfer]

Let me elaborate.  There is no enemy airforce, therefore there is no need to further develop air-to-air capabilities.

-Penguin

Yeah, right.

I won't waste the effort to actually show you how wrong you are but you're really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really wrong.

[F22RaptorDude]

F22 Raptor All the way 

Except there is no need to dogfight, because there are no planes to!  Manned aircraft are the way of the past, UAV's are the way of the future.  Each one costs about a tenth of a manned fighter, so they can be deployed in hordes.

-Penguin

This UAV crap is annoying, if your going to kill someone be there to do it and not 7,000 miles away sitting in a comfortable seat. I mean sure its cool with the looks and the boops and beeps but is it necessary when our air craft are almost invisible anyway, I think we should Concentrate on Jets like the F-22, F-35, F-16, and the F-18.

Don't get me wrong, un-manned warfare is good on saving lives but I think they should keep it to ground vehicles and such only.

Let me elaborate.  There is no enemy airforce, therefore there is no need to further develop air-to-air capabilities.

-Penguin

What you need to think about is the future of war, if we go to war with Russia for say, they have an air force right? In future war other countries might have air capabilities. Countries who we might be friendly with for now.

[CAP1]

yeah its a shame that the US is the only country that makes mil aircraft, it would be nice to have more options.

the problem with that, is that the us built are the best in the world. bar none. 

[CAP1]

F22 Raptor All the way 

This UAV crap is annoying, if your going to kill someone be there to do it and not 7,000 miles away sitting in a comfortable seat. I mean sure its cool with the looks and the boops and beeps but is it necessary when our air craft are almost invisible anyway, I think we should Concentrate on Jets like the F-22, F-35, F-16, and the F-18.

Don't get me wrong, un-manned warfare is good on saving lives but I think they should keep it to ground vehicles and such only.
What you need to think about is the future of war, if we go to war with Russia for say, they have an air force right? In future war other countries might have air capabilities. Countries who we might be friendly with for now.

also remember those are controlled through uplinks. i don't give a dam how good the security is. it will be broken someday.

[Penguin]

F22 Raptor All the way 

This UAV crap is annoying, if your going to kill someone be there to do it and not 7,000 miles away sitting in a comfortable seat. I mean sure its cool with the looks and the boops and beeps but is it necessary when our air craft are almost invisible anyway, I think we should Concentrate on Jets like the F-22, F-35, F-16, and the F-18.

Don't get me wrong, un-manned warfare is good on saving lives but I think they should keep it to ground vehicles and such only.
What you need to think about is the future of war, if we go to war with Russia for say, they have an air force right? In future war other countries might have air capabilities. Countries who we might be friendly with for now.

Why would killing someone from the seat of a fast moving jet fighter be any more effective than killing someone from a nice comfy office seat?  It's like saying that using a bayonet is more effective than using a rifle.  Your argument makes no sense at all.  Why should unmanned vehicles be limited to ground warfare?  They provide badly needed 24/7 real time eyes-in-the-sky to our troops.

Well, we're in a war right now.  In fact, we are in two wars.  Why would developing technology that is completely extranneous to those wars help us to win them?  This also makes no sense at all.  We need UAV's and better methods of taking out enemy leaders, not the latest cluster-bomb.

Yeah, right.

I won't waste the effort to actually show you how wrong you are but you're really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really wrong.

Quite the wall of text you've got there.   However, just saying that I'm wrong over and over again doesn't make me right or wrong, it's just annoying.

also remember those are controlled through uplinks. i don't give a dam how good the security is. it will be broken someday.

Also remember that manned aircraft have human pilots with limits to endurance.  I don't give a darn how motivated you are, you're not going to be able to fly twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.  Remember, there is no free lunch, there is always a tradeoff.

-Penguin

[smoe]

Or everyone can look into the past. In the late 1930's all the ally mil stuff was relatively crap compared to axis toys. A lot of the people back then wanted to build and stockpile obsolete designs. Instead country's waited for the right time. Yes, I said the right time.