A-26 vs Tu-2

[Karnak]

I'm always "stunned" at how difficult many of these are so difficult to exit in an emergency.  It always seems that was the least important design aspect of any plane. 

I'd make a quip about it being Russian, but.....I've seen what needs to be done to get out of a Mosquito or B-17, and it isn't pretty.

[Ack-Ack]

I've seen what needs to be done to get out of a Mosquito or B-17, and it isn't pretty.

In my opinion the worst was the 3rd crewmen in US torpedo planes and dive bombers, they had virtually no way of bailing out if needed.

ack-ack

[Charge]

"Better yes, but a top and bottom dual .50 turret isn't that much better than two of the nice Russian 12.7mm guns manually aimed in the dorsal and one in the ventral positions."

Turret should actually be better. From point of gunner induced scatter the turret should be very much better as any maneuvering or vibration will cause the defensive fire to have excessive dispersion with manual aimed guns. Turrets also have larger angle to fire as the high speed affects the manually aimed guns very much making them hard to aim anywhere but to a narrow aft cone.

What is bad in turrets are very much greater weight of course and in some cases limited view from turret depending on sight arrangement. So I'd say that A26 has an advantage in defensive armament.

-C+

[Karnak]

I agree that it is better, but neither is like attacking a B-17 or B-26.

[Wmaker]

I bring this thread up as this a more appropriate thread for the recent A-26 vs. Tu-2 discussion going on in another thread.

As a level bomber I think it's clear that A-26 would be the better bomber in AH.

- The top speed often listed for A-26 is 355mph at its best alt. According to the Warbird Tech Vol.22 that is the speed of the solid nosed model and the glass nosed level bomber actually had a top speed of 375mph. Based on the data I've seen, Tu-2 will most likely do ~340mph at its best alt. Either way, A-26 is clearly faster.

- Many references list the max. bomb load of the Tu-2 as 6614lbs (3000kg). Considering the layout of the Tu-2, I'm not even entirely sure it would have that load in AH due to the layout of the Tu-2. Many sources also list 2000kg and that is all I have ever seen in the photos (4x250kg in the bomb bay and 2x500kg in the wing root hard points). If the wing root hard points are capable of carrying 1000kg bombs and considering that only one 1000kg can be fitted to the bombay, that would be the 6614lbs figure mentioned in several sources. Think everyone can agree that having three very big bombs isn't very versatile load in AH if the Tu-2 is able to carry that load to begin with. In the real war the average bomb loads carried by the Tu-2 were 1200-1350kg (this was due to irregular supply of bombs, however). A-26's max. load is 6000lbs which in usual American fashion can consist of several different loadouts/bomb sizes which make its load far more versatile in AH, although external bombs could be not included for the A-26 aswell as they seem to have been very rare or nonexistent in use during WWII. That would leave 4000lbs internal bomb load for the A-26.

- The defensive armament of the A-26 is better IMO largely due to the superior fields of fire of the guns and the higher top speed of the A-26 helps to keep the attacker in the rear hemisphere, although speed of the Tu-2 is very high for a bomber as well. If the attacker approaches for the lower rear, it will have three turrets with 6 .50cals tracking it by an A-26 formation. In the Tu-2 there's only three flexible mounted 12.7mm Berezins firing back.

- Climb rate goes for the Tu-2 due to its clearly better power loading over all.



All that being said I'd much rather see the Tu-2 first in AH as there's not a single domestic Soviet bomber in the game. US bomber said on the other hand is basically the best covered plane set in the game already along the US fighter set.

[Ack-Ack]

I do not know, but I was hoping somebody more familiar with the two aircraft would see the thread.  Soviet pilots described being able to fly the Tu-2 like a fighter and the A-26 was credited with 7 air-to-air kills, but both of those are very, very subjective measures.

The A-26 is not credited with any confirmed A2A kills.  All officially confirmed kills in A-26s were from the defensive gun turret positions, though one A-26 pilot was credited with a probable Me 262 kill (shot at while landing).

ack-ack

[Karnak]

The A-26 is not credited with any confirmed A2A kills.  All officially confirmed kills in A-26s were from the defensive gun turret positions, though one A-26 pilot was credited with a probable Me 262 kill (shot at while landing).

ack-ack

You said that on the first page of this thread when it was posted two years ago.

[MK-84]

You said that on the first page of this thread when it was posted two years ago.

  To consistency then

[Rich46yo]

If I saw an upgrade coming that included the Yak-3 and the TU-2 I'd probably over night a big wet sloppy kiss to Keller Texas.

[Arlo]

- Many references list the max. bomb load of the Tu-2 as 6614lbs (3000kg). Considering the layout of the Tu-2, I'm not even entirely sure it would have that load in AH due to the layout of the Tu-2. Many sources also list 2000kg and that is all I have ever seen in the photos (4x250kg in the bomb bay and 2x500kg in the wing root hard points). If the wing root hard points are capable of carrying 1000kg bombs and considering that only one 1000kg can be fitted to the bombay, that would be the 6614lbs figure mentioned in several sources. Think everyone can agree that having three very big bombs isn't very versatile load in AH if the Tu-2 is able to carry that load to begin with. In the real war the average bomb loads carried by the Tu-2 were 1200-1350kg (this was due to irregular supply of bombs, however). A-26's max. load is 6000lbs which in usual American fashion can consist of several different loadouts/bomb sizes which make its load far more versatile in AH, although external bombs could be not included for the A-26 aswell as they seem to have been very rare or nonexistent in use during WWII. That would leave 4000lbs internal bomb load for the A-26.

http://russian.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/tu2.html

Bomb Load:
Internal: 1500 kg (3312 lbs)
External: 2270 kg (5004 lbs)

http://ww2warbirds.net/ww2htmls/tupotu2.html

TU-2S (1944)

Up to 8,818 lb of disposable stores carried in a lower-fuselage weapons bay rated at 8,818 lb. General disposables load consisted of:

    4 × 2,204 lb FAB-1000 bomb, or
    8 × 1,102 lb FAB-500 bombs

This version was an upgrade from the Tu-2. It had an increased bombload, uprated engines, and the twin 0.3 inch (7,62 mm) ShKAS guns in the dorsaland ventral positions were replaced by single 0.50 inch (12,7 mm) Beresin UBT guns.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1010

 The aircraft featured external hardpoints for munitions as well. Total ordnance capacity was 3,300lbs internally and up to 5,000lbs externally.

http://www.thefullwiki.org/Tupolev_Tu-2

Bombs: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) internally and 2,270 kg (5,000 lb) externally

http://www.tgplanes.com/planfile.asp?idplane=129

    2 20mm cannons ; 3 12,7 mm mg. ; up to 4000 kg of bombs

[Wmaker]

http://russian.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/tu2.html

Bomb Load:
Internal: 1500 kg (3312 lbs)
External: 2270 kg (5004 lbs)

http://ww2warbirds.net/ww2htmls/tupotu2.html

TU-2S (1944)

Up to 8,818 lb of disposable stores carried in a lower-fuselage weapons bay rated at 8,818 lb. General disposables load consisted of:

    4 × 2,204 lb FAB-1000 bomb, or
    8 × 1,102 lb FAB-500 bombs

It doesn't matter how many times you post links to dime-in-a-dozen websites or that scan from an connect-the-dots - an airplane coloring book. That book is a good example of throwing bunch inaccurate info together from other alreay published inaccurate books to publish yet another "WWII aircraft book". Use of some common sense and source-criticism would go a long way.

Gordon & Khazanov's book which is known for it's accuracy lists 3000kg as the maximum load:


Here's a wartime soviet source listing 3000kg as the maximum:


Tu-2 is a very slim airframe. Even a cursory look at the actual plane easily tells that you can fit loads mentioned on those websites into the plane.

Tu-2 with one 1000kg bomb in the bomb bay:

So the maximum load would be three of those, one in the bay two in the wing roots.

Here's the bomb bay loaded with four FAB250s (250kg) and two FAB500s (500kg) in the wing roots:

[Arlo]

Meh. 

AIR FORCE Magazine / April 2010

http://tinyurl.com/k6yy4am  (PDF file)

Yet another gorgeous diagram (not designed to illustrate every loadout option):