109/190 overview

[Raptor05121]

Hey guys I'm looking to expand my envelope here. I'm mostly a bomber buff but I've been getting a few more name in lights with the Newbfire, Pony, and Jug. I know there is more fun to have wither the 109 and 190 so I'd like to get my hands into that german cannonry, but I have no idea where to start. Can someone give me an overview of each of the models of the 109 and 190? Such as pros/cons, notes, etc. I tried searching but I'm getting too specific stuff on single models. Just looking for an overview to help my transition into the German rides.

<S>

Alex

[Krupinski]

Think of the 109 as a Newbfire and Pony mixed together, it's fast, maneuverable, and can climb extremely well. The 190 is most closely related to the P47, although the P47 has more of an edge in maneuverability.

You need to lead shots amost twice as much as you would with .50s

The best advice you're going to get is by flying them for yourself and figuring out what works for you.

[Widewing]

I'm one who is extremely partial to the 109F.... Why? Back when the revised 109s were introduced, and the flight model revised, I started flying the 109F a great deal. I remember how I introduced many to the uber flaps. One well known and highly respected player (and very capable dueler) met me in the TA to explore the capability of the 109F. He flew just about everything in the inventory against my 109F. Zeros, Spits, LaLas, Niki, F4Us and the like. The 109F won every duel. Of course, you fly it differently depending upon the opposing fighter.

It's not like the 109F hasn't weaknesses. It does. However, those weaknesses can be avoided. For example, every 109 has torque issues at low speed. This is magnified if you have the flaps out. At high AoA, very low speed, 109s simply will not roll to the right with the throttle up (even with full right rudder)... You can pull off power, but you risk a stall. I learned that it is invariably better to simply roll left and adjust as required.

Bighorn2 (using one of his many aliases), and I slugged it out with me in a 109G2 and him in an La-7. The 109G2 was better overall. However, only as long as I avoided the torque issues by sticking to my dictum of "always go left". The reason is that going right takes too much time or depletes E by chopping power. Without exception, going left was quicker and left me in a better position to fight. If I had broken with my rule, the La-7 would have gained an advantage. This is a general rule and it applies to every 109, including the K model.

All 109s suffer from control stiffness at very high speeds. Keep it below 500 mph. Use trim to get them out of high speed dives if necessary. Visibility is marginal... Don't load external guns (gondolas) unless you plan to attack bombers and not have to deal with fighters. Utilize the excellent climb and acceleration. 30mm cannon will kill any fighter with one hit... If you're new to 109s, avoid the 30mm if possible until you have some time in the 109s. The 30mm ballistics are poor and it takes much practice to develop good accuracy. On the other hand, the 20mm is more than adequate if you can get several hits.

All in all, any model of 109 will be fun and lethal....


190s... I fly them a bit in the MA. I duel in them often enough to feel confident in the aircraft. Ultimately, 190s depend upon maintaining E, either in the form of speed or altitude that can be quickly converted. Do not expect to out turn anything short of a bomber, and some bombers can turn inside any 190 (Boston and A-20G being two). This is a fighter that thrives on being flown fast and in the vertical. It can change lift vectors instantaneously, which is beneficial in getting a pursuing enemy out of sync...  Don't bother with a flat scissors. Why? Because any pursuing pilot worth a hoot will simply high yo-yo and shoot off your winkie post-haste. Remember, the way to avoid an overshoot is to change directions. Going vertical is a great way to take advantage of a 190 driver trying to force an overshoot with a flat scissors. He's burned off his E and you're sitting above him with every advantage. 190s are well armed and well armored... They can give and take a beating.

[Krupinski]

I have to disagree with 'Always Roll Left'. SunsFan told me that along time ago, since then I've tried rolling right and have gained the advantage in fights countless times by going against the torque, it burns alot of E but that's not always a bad thing when fighting certain planes.

[Widewing]

I have to disagree with 'Always Roll Left'. SunsFan told me that along time ago, since then I've tried rolling right and have gained the advantage in fights countless times by going against the torque, it burns alot of E but that's not always a bad thing when fighting certain planes.

Remember, I call this a general rule... Under certain circumstances, reducing power and rolling right may be beneficial. I have films where I did just that, but not against an equal pilot in a fighter than rolls right easily when I have no advantage at the time. For someone new to 109s, I'd suggest sticking to the rule until they have the skill level to do otherwise, assuming they advance that far.

[Scherf]

I haven't flown in a bit, but if, at close range, the red 109 icon resolves itself into a red "109F", my next move in the Mossie is to Run Away. Not so for other 109s.

[JOACH1M]

Fly a 109F and g6 first. Good learning planes. 109F favorite 109 to deliver ze pown!

[Raptor05121]

good tips. keep them coming

[Big Rat]

Widewing gave a great overview of them.  I'm not a very good 190 stick so I'll let others cover those.  As a general rule with the 109 series the later the model the more emphasis was placed on speed vs manueverability.  eg. 109F will out turn a G6, but the later models with the more power, you tend to use them more as an energy fighter then a turn fighter.  The G2 and G6 tend to be the middle ground 109's, not bad in either area of use.  I persoanlly find the G2 to be the most versatile of the bunch, but firepower tends to be a bit weak in this model (same gun package as the F).  When you get to the G14 and K4 you start talking some serious power and the torque issues that go along with them.  The G14 tends to be a bit more agile then the K4, some will argue this, as I tend to feel the K4 is easier to fly hard.  The K4 is all about power, the thing is simply awsome in the verticle fight, and it doesn't turn bad for such a high powered plane.  It's main drawback for newer players is trying to hit with that 30mm hub cannon.  The 109's all fly similiar but there are big differences between an F and K, the trick is to find one that fits how you want to fight or fight most often.

 
BigRat     

[Debrody]

If you want to get easy kills, dont fly the G-6.
But if you want to improve fast, fly the G-6 and nothing else.
   Its not fast, about the same as the spit16, climbs and runs a little bit worse, but has like 9 minutes of wep. 315mph on the deck, 337 with wep, but rapidly increasing up to 6k when it can do 360 with wep. Also climbs the best at 6k. Over this altitude, you wont notice any major speed improvement, tops out at 21k, 395mph.
   The maneuverability isnt as bad. Clearly better than the Pony, a little bit better than the La, about in par with the ki-84 but clearly worse than the spits. Dont turn with them unless youre very light on fuel (under 35%), open the flaps soon and overshoot, use the snaprolls (the 109 excels in it). The turn radius is better than the turn rate, avoid the flat turns, the scissors are your friend. Try to fight uphill if possible, even this weaksauce 109 has its biggest strenght in the vertical scissors.
   Its nose-heavy, you can push it hard, wont fall into unrecoverable spin. The nose-heavyness also helps in the reversals, you can go "up" until you totally run out of speed, then simply chop throttle, kick the rudder and instantly turn 180 degrees. It can and will do crazy stuff, but always go nose-down very soon.
   Best luck, sir. Any more questions in connection with the G-6, send a pm.
 

[MjTalon]

If you want to get easy kills, dont fly the G-6.
But if you want to improve fast, fly the G-6 and nothing else.
   Its not fast, about the same as the spit16, climbs and runs a little bit worse, but has like 9 minutes of wep. 315mph on the deck, 337 with wep, but rapidly increasing up to 6k when it can do 360 with wep. Also climbs the best at 6k. Over this altitude, you wont notice any major speed improvement, tops out at 21k, 395mph.
   The maneuverability isnt as bad. Clearly better than the Pony, a little bit better than the La, about in par with the ki-84 but clearly worse than the spits. Dont turn with them unless youre very light on fuel (under 35%), open the flaps soon and overshoot, use the snaprolls (the 109 excels in it). The turn radius is better than the turn rate, avoid the flat turns, the scissors are your friend. Try to fight uphill if possible, even this weaksauce 109 has its biggest strenght in the vertical scissors.
   Its nose-heavy, you can push it hard, wont fall into unrecoverable spin. The nose-heavyness also helps in the reversals, you can go "up" until you totally run out of speed, then simply chop throttle, kick the rudder and instantly turn 180 degrees. It can and will do crazy stuff, but always go nose-down very soon.
   Best luck, sir. Any more questions in connection with the G-6, send a pm.
 

I second this, I haven't flown in a little under 2 years now but the G6 hands down is the optimal 109 to learn them in.. It's not entirely out of the rookie category but it does require some basic 109 knowledge to get the full potential out of it. The nose heavy trait is what sets it apart from the other 109s (excluding the K4 rocket), It's not the fastest nor the slowest and it's weight makes it very stable at low speed knife fights and vertical maneuvering. The gun package is what makes it shine, those 13mm MG's and 20mm nose cannon will knock down just about every single engine fighter and twin engine fighters are big enough to put a solid burst to bring them down without a problem... If you're looking for more firepower the 30mm is a step above insuring kills almost every time your bullets land on target.

[Vulcan]

The 190 is most closely related to the P47, although the P47 has more of an edge in maneuverability.

 

[Debrody]

Sir, why we cant see a 190 virtuose who does moves like Lepape? 

MjTalon, i would disagree about the shinig firepower. It sukks in a many vs many, you have to stay behind your target for a while, snapshots wont bring it down. Its pretty much enough in the 1v1 tho.

[Raptor05121]

Final word on which to stick to: G6 or F?

[Debrody]

Its only on you, sir.
The F is the german spit-9, a very good turnfighter.
The G6 is only marginally faster but turns much worse.