wat ever happended to pilots with honor

[5PointOh]

[B4Buster]

Funny how a lot wanting honor in here, I have in turn never seen fight honorably. Funny. People are only aware of what the red guys are doing, and are in la la land when it comes to their own actions. The self righteous folks in this game crack me up. I think game play has deteriorated in the nearly 5 years I've had various accounts here, but not a huge amount. I've seen large squads form that weren't around when I started, which certainly effects game play in the MA, but I think people are just finally getting tired of things. If you go back in time, you'd find things are not all that different. I've been playing multi player flight sims since' 99. Other than evolving from a bright eyed, innocent newb that didn't know any different, nothing has changed.   

[B4Buster]

Sorry, can't edit from my phone. Not much has changed* rather.

[DREDIOCK]

My point was that practically everyone does these things but then there are those that think they should be treated some how differently than the ones they do these things to.

No. Your statement was entirely accurate though not necessarily to the OP whom I dont know when you said this.

wat ever happended to pilots with honor?

They got tired of you not having any and started flying like you.

When you try to fly with honor and everyone else is doing these things. It gets old enough to say "screw it" and go for some paybacks.

As per our argument the other night I've long said both in the MA and on the boards the circumstances in which I will HO. Thats not at all being hypocritical. Well over 90% of fights I enter or am in will I take a HO shot even once the fight is joined and  I am out numbered so long as Im not being HOed. But if  3 guys are on me and 2 of em are HOing there isnt much other choice then to start HOing back.

Or if your already in a fight with 4-5 people ganging you. And someone who wasnt originally involved int he fight suddenly decided to come in at you for the easy pick head on. You dont have many other options. If you have the shot you take the HO or end up with 5 or 6 on you then 4 or 5

When the last 4 times in the last 1/2 hour you flew against a Pony and you've either been Hoed or the pony driver has tried to HO you And thats pretty much the only shot the pony was even trying to make. Well then you are going to start HOing ponies.

when against a 262. Unless its against a really poor pilot who Pzes away his E. Often the HO shot is the only one you have if said 262 has advantage and is zooming you. And often if the 262 is pretty fast.You start off taking the HO shot in an attempt for the deflection or snapshot. Because if you dont start taking that shot in the Ho position. there is a good chance the 262 will be past you before you can ever pull the trigger.

In our fight the other night. If you look at your film. you will see that only 2 of those passes tops were true HO shots. The rest I was turning for the deflection shot. In fact the one ping on your wight outer wingtip I made was on a deflection shot.
Now Im not denying that I took a couple HO shots. Those were the only shots you were giving me. For most of that fight you had the advantage. I was taking the shots that were available. The one time I did have advantage. Your feild ack became too much an issue to press.

None of this is being hypocritical. As a general rule. I dont initiate the HO's and generally I only do so in certain circumstances. The most common of which is retaliation. You would find alot more people who would say I fought them cleanly more often then those who would say I always HO. If I have. There is usually a reason for it including your statement of "They got tired of you not having any and started flying like you."

As I said. 90+% of the time I wont take the HO shot unless Im Hoed first and even then not always. And that number would go up dramatically if its a 1V1 regardless of advantage.

But those are the HOes I hate the most. the ones where its a roughly evenly matched fight in both plane and Alt/E  Or those  such as a guy in a KI I called out a week or two ago where the other person had both alt and E and the ONLY shots he was taking were HOes. Not one time in that fight did I respond in kind. When that happens.Then yea I'll call them out on it every single time. Just as I did then. In that instance he hit my oil on the first pass and a few passes later took out my engine. Being far from home, I bailed. My next flight I went to the same area and spotted 2 KIs. Not knowing who was who. Damn right I HOed em both. didnt outright kill them because I only got their oil and they dove back to their field and hid in the safety of their ack.
That wasnt being hypocritical. That was getting some payback. And at least one of the two suffered for the sins of another. but since we cant identify whom is whom. It is what it is.

But you know what they say about payback.

Still. my ratio of HO vs non HO fights by FAR is in favor of non HO when compared to alot of players. I'd take my ratio over most others when it comes to being non hypocritical.

[Wiley]

The only point I'm trying to make here is at some point you cross over into "over kill" thats where honor and sportsmanship comes in. In the above mentioned scenario you think two guys on one isn't enough to save a goon in the area?

If they've been dancing with the singleton long enough for me to notice, probably not.  For whatever reason, they're having trouble putting him down.

Having 50 guys take a base is over kill, having 30 guy do it NOE is even worst! The point being that at some point an honorable player will step back and look for another fight, where an "Ahole" continues to push the stupidity over the line.

What I've generally noticed though, is if you bring just enough people to take the base, more often than not there's suddenly 30 defenders upping.  To me the game is at its best with groups of 20 or so on each side clashing.

The point I'm making is, the thing that makes the MA great is the ebb and flow of combat.  A relatively even fight generally swings one way or the other for a few minutes at a time, and then the uncertainty comes in about if and how reinforcements are going to come in on either side.  You get moments of local superiority before the other side sends in more people, and sometimes your side is outnumbered for a while while reinforcements come back.  To me, those moments of local superiority are where the ganging is ok, and quite often it's where most of the " I got ganged" on 200 comes from.  It really irks me when someone dives into a crowd of enemy planes and then whines when they engage him.

I'm sorry, you came in with 10 of your buddies and you're the last one alive, there's 4 of us still flying, and more enemy are inbound?  I'm all for the 4 of us putting you down asap so we can get ready for the next wave.  If I'm headed toward a fight and there's a gang of friendlies chasing something that's faster than my plane toward me that is co-alt or higher, sorry, I'm going to take a whack at him if he's headed my way.  To me, it's self defense as quite often the guy that's being harried will attack.

While I do go to the DA and fight squadies, and sometimes even run around furball lake, I prefer the MAs the "war action" believe it or not. Some believe I can't stand the "win the warz" crowd, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Had we more skilled, honorable, sportsman type players I think you'd see far more battles in the war than you would see "stealing base" type things that you see now.

I think that it has less to do with honor, and more to do with organization.  Most people don't want to put in the effort to get organized and do more reasonably sized battles along the front, so you get hordes.  It's kind of an unsolvable problem too, in that it's not reasonable to expect people to get organized and treat it like a job.

Wiley.

[DREDIOCK]

Honor?   Do you really expect that out of 3 or 4 hundred people all thrown in one room together to ALL display your code of conduct? You got little Tommy that'd sell his sister for a kill, JoeMo smoking dope and old Earl doing shots of Jack on climbout just looking to piss the next guy off cause he can't make this months house payment.
You got a scoring system and community that holds the #1 guys on a pedistal (spell check please). Honor from all ain't happening my man. Good luck on your search for the Holy Grail.

Oh, and a BBS that just stirs the pot. 

I used to see something resembling Honor in pre gamestorm AW. I remember fights where One person would call out "Bingo ammo" or "Bingo fuel" Or being in a damaged plane trying to disengage  and one player would actually give a <S> and let the other one go land. If it was a 1 V 1 fight. Rarely would anyone interefere. There were some players to the contrary. But they were the exception and not the norm.

There seemed to be and unwriten code of honor. An "esprit de corps". It was like that the first year or so I played. Then became less and less. Eventually the best time to find such honor among combatants was early in the mornings on Sat and Sun. and would last untill around Noon EST. That was back in the days when on a weekend I was known to play on stop for 15-20 hours straight. And once played non stop for 24 hours. (needless to say I didnt play at all the next day LOL) But eventually even that gradually vanished as newer players came in and for lack of a better term. Didnt share the same kind of respect or the camaraderie that was once common. And in fact would sneer outright at the mere suggestion with pretty much the same attitudes you see now.

Eventually it became just as you see it today. Not much has changed in the 10 years I've been here. Its completely flip flopped from where it was. Honor is more the exception rather then the norm. Everyone for the most part. Even the old timers just gave up. You still occasionally see it. And its a breath of fresh air when you come across it. But I cant say as I blame anyone for giving it up. Whats the point if your one of the only ones doing it.

[DREDIOCK]

For just one month, I really wish HTC would remove the "name in lights" function just to test it out, what is the harm in that???  I'd be willing to bet the game changes for the better.  More people will take challenging aircraft instead of the easy-mode stuff.    

Also, I'd like to see HTC change up their scoring formulas to throw off the rank dweebs, too.

Scoring, ranking, name in lights... do not kid youself, they ALL lend to the arcade style of playing.    

Naa. People typically want to get the most satisfaction while doing the least amount of work. They will still fly their EZ mode planes because it makes getting that kill count that they look at even better.
Now take away all semblence of light,scoring and record keeping of any type and then you might see people in other planes. But even then. Some folks will go for the easiest way. Because as a rule. Most people in general are lazy when they can get away with it.

[DREDIOCK]

that is true grizz, except sometimes I'll be the 4th or 20th guy when I realize that single con doesnt just roll over and die and I dont really want somebody on my six close to me trying to take down as many as he can before he dies.  i have gotten shot down by that single cons with 4 on his six who refused to die.  so now if I am gonna be nearby and that con is still up, i will come down and pick him.

seen you fly and you really dont horde or pile up as much as we do, but we are all trying to learn.

semp

Grizz doesnt have to.
With his uncanny gunnery skills he IS the horde. LOL

Try telling me that no matter what side your on as soon as you know Grizz is in the area on the opposing team it doesnt get everyones attention as being a major threat. LOL

I dont care if 20 people from my base are chasing him. If I know Grizz is around. I want to know exactly where he is at at all times. I've even chased him around with no intention or thought of even trying to get him just to keep him in front of me rather then risk him ending up behind me.

That being said. Grizz is one of the most clean fighters I see in game

[PuppetZ]

Oh the many reasons I don't fly in the MA's anymore .  Me personally, if you removed the MA's, only leaving FSO's, Scenarios, and other special events.  I'd still subscribe.  Leave me only the MA's, I'd be gone in two weeks at this point.    to those that put on the special events, you guys keep a lot of us vets around that would otherwise be long gone

 
BigRat 

Let's not forget about noobs that would be long gone if not for those very same special event. That's where this game truly shine. Not in the MA cluster f... Every time I fly in there I feel like that girl in the movie i'm loo....eerrr....NVM 

[Iraqvet]

I find it funny that Wwaker would have the ____ to even make a comment on a thread that involved the word Honor in it. I did have some shread of respect for him until he pm'd me after I killed him in his brewster. Yet it seems that is all you see him fly....literally. It seems that if he keeps up with the Pm's he will have to join the ranks of such as VDallas.
I give respect where it is earned and Wmaker has blown it time after time. 

[Guppy35]

That's true, but I'm talking more like, you are flying and you see a guy getting ganged 2-3k below you.  I always fly by, whereas most players will dive in being 5th or 6th guy trying to steal the kill.  What makes it even worse is when 2-3 of them whine on range about getting an assist.

Yep.  Asking if someone needs help takes but a click of the mic button too.  I ask folks to stay out of the fight I'm in, even if the guy is getting the edge.  I kinda figure at that point he's earned the kill.

Nothing more frustrating then being in a good fight and have someone blow through and ruin some other guy's effort, even if it's me that got picked.  I often check on 200 to make sure it was the guy who was actually fighting that got the kill on me.  I figure they deserve the credit for it and the <S> for the good fight.

Always cracks me up to have the picker throw the <S> out after the pick too.  I don't care that you picked me, but I'm not really impressed either.  At least give credit to the guy who worked the fight to the point I was that much of an easier target

[Karnak]

I was in Rookland the other night at about 10k in a Tiffie when I overheard another Rook as if the Rook down on the deck wanted assistance to which the Rook in a two red vs one Rook replied "By all means, jump in, jump in!"

Some people do ask.

[j500ss]

Bottom line is the only one I can control is me.  Accepting that fact and playing the game in a way that I believe is respectful of other players is all I can do.

That and not getting worked up because someone doesn't play it my way

I need not read any farther in this thread than this!!!!  You say it simple yet effective Dan...... 

I'm not in it for the name in lights, not in it for the rank,  not in it for the chest thumping.  I'm just looking for some fun, and an honest fight.  Almost impossible to find that in any arena, yet on that rare occasion you do, it has it's personal rewards....Win or lose.  Plus, just hanging out on range and squad channel, that's just a bit of icing on the cake

[Wmaker]

I find it funny that Wwaker would have the ____ to even make a comment on a thread that involved the word Honor in it. I did have some shread of respect for him until he pm'd me after I killed him in his brewster. Yet it seems that is all you see him fly....literally. It seems that if he keeps up with the Pm's he will have to join the ranks of such as VDallas.
I give respect where it is earned and Wmaker has blown it time after time.  

Don't remember anything of the sort. You better have a film/screenshot to back this one up.

For the record, you've blown yours by being a mouth in the Ch200.

And flat out lies like the above one certainly won't raise it any.

[Guppy35]

Don't remember anything of the sort. You better have a film/screenshot to back this one up.

For the record, you've blown yours by being a mouth in the Ch200.

And flat out lies like the above one certainly won't raise it any.

I think WMaker, it's just in your nature to cause trouble.  First the Brewster, now this!