Turret traverse

[tf15pin]

I would like to see tanks with powered turrets have their traverse rate decreased when the engine is off.

[guncrasher]

ok stupid question since not familiar with tanks at all, how did it work with engines off?  batteries?

semp

[Lusche]

cranking handwheels 

[legomiles]

hmmmmm that should be added

[Butcher]

I would like to see tanks with powered turrets have their traverse rate decreased when the engine is off.

If thats the case 99.5% of GVers would complain.

[waystin2]

The Wirbelwind I believe was originally designed with a powered traverse rate.  HTC found that it was actually handcranked in most Wirbelwinds so it was given a slower traverse rate. 

[Belial]

+1 for historical accuracy

[tf15pin]

Tanks can no longer 'creep' when the engines are off. Why? Because you can't move a multi-ton tracked vehicle by popping it in reverse and pushing the gas when the engine is off.

Turning the traverse speed down when the engine is off is along these same lines. I do not know what mechanism every tank used to power their turrets but I know that both the Tiger and Tiger II had a hydraulic pump that was powered by the drive motor. The pressure was then used to power a hydraulic motor that in turn rotated the turret.  When the engine was off the turret was manually rotated by hand wheels at a markedly decreased rate. This wasn't all bad; with the engine off you were not making noise and giving away your position. We all call for everyone to shut down their engines in game so that we can hear the enemy coming. This puts them at a huge disadvantage while the powered down tank can still move his turret at the powered traverse rate.

Having the traverse rate changed when the tank has it's engine shut down will cause everyone to make a decision; give away your position and keep your powered turret, or stay concealed and have slower traverse.

For the attackers it will give them some options; either they will be able to hear you running and approach accordingly, or they will have half a chance at using their speed to flank you because of your slower traverse.

I think this is an important issue with the addition of the Tiger II.

It may not affect all tanks. Some models of the Panzer IV had a small gas engine that powered the hydraulics for the turret traverse so it would be reasonable to let the Panzer keep it's powered traverse even when the main engine is shut down.

It is conceivable that some tanks had an electric/hydraulic hybrid where an electric motor ran the pump or maybe through a gear reduction used an electric motor directly allowing the traverse speed to be maintained.

I think this is a pretty simple thing to implement that will lead to a more dynamic ground battle with less sit-and-ambush tactics and more fire-and-maneuver going on.  

[AHTbolt]

I was a real world tanker retired now but unless you had a auxiliary motor to power the hydraulics systems you had manual traverse and elevation. But in a defensive you had you engines off and started them every two hours or so to charge the batteries (just like in Kelly's Hero's lol) more often if your running your thermal sites. (M60A3 and M1's). But you never turned your engines off when in contact with the enemy you cant hear anything engines on or off. And yes the manual traverse is slooooooow and will wear your gunner out. It should be modeled that way in the game. +1

[guncrasher]

a big plus 1 then.

semp

[JUGgler]

Tanks can no longer 'creep' when the engines are off. Why? Because you can't move a multi-ton tracked vehicle by popping it in reverse and pushing the gas when the engine is off.

Turning the traverse speed down when the engine is off is along these same lines. I do not know what mechanism every tank used to power their turrets but I know that both the Tiger and Tiger II had a hydraulic pump that was powered by the drive motor. The pressure was then used to power a hydraulic motor that in turn rotated the turret.  When the engine was off the turret was manually rotated by hand wheels at a markedly decreased rate. This wasn't all bad; with the engine off you were not making noise and giving away your position. We all call for everyone to shut down their engines in game so that we can hear the enemy coming. This puts them at a huge disadvantage while the powered down tank can still move his turret at the powered traverse rate.

Having the traverse rate changed when the tank has it's engine shut down will cause everyone to make a decision; give away your position and keep your powered turret, or stay concealed and have slower traverse.

For the attackers it will give them some options; either they will be able to hear you running and approach accordingly, or they will have half a chance at using their speed to flank you because of your slower traverse.

I think this is an important issue with the addition of the Tiger II.

It may not affect all tanks. Some models of the Panzer IV had a small gas engine that powered the hydraulics for the turret traverse so it would be reasonable to let the Panzer keep it's powered traverse even when the main engine is shut down.

It is conceivable that some tanks had an electric/hydraulic hybrid where an electric motor ran the pump or maybe through a gear reduction used an electric motor directly allowing the traverse speed to be maintained.

I think this is a pretty simple thing to implement that will lead to a more dynamic ground battle with less sit-and-ambush tactics and more fire-and-maneuver going on.  

This makes entirely too much sense, it will FAIL 



JUGgler

[Lusche]

It may not affect all tanks. Some models of the Panzer IV had a small gas engine that powered the hydraulics for the turret traverse so it would be reasonable to let the Panzer keep it's powered traverse even when the main engine is shut down.

Interestingly the last variant of the Panzerkampfwagen IV, the IV J, got totally rid of powered turret traverse and could only pivot the turret manually.

[tf15pin]

Anyone try to flank a tiger II yet? Or has their been a lot of success getting through the mantlet?

[crazyivan]

The Wirbelwind I believe was originally designed with a powered traverse rate.  HTC found that it was actually handcranked in most Wirbelwinds so it was given a slower traverse rate. 

Snapshots in the old Wirble were the devil.

[B-17]

it might put a damper on those few (many) GVers who Shut down engine and creep forward. Making no noise, but still moving. It would take longer for the turret to traverse.