F3 mode has got to go

[Meatwad]

Its fine the way it is

[mechanic]

ya know surprisingly enough the a20 at low e can out turn a spit in here.

False.

It may out turn a foolish pilot of the spit.

[Beefcake]

My B25 can easily out turn any Spitfire.....








Wait for it....







.......on the ground.

[titanic3]

I think it's sort of a fair balance seeing as how almost all planes with F3 mode have a gunner. Only exception is the Bf110, Mossie, and recently added IL2. Think of F3 mode as a way to balance the fact that you had 2 an extra pair of eyes in the plane.

IMO, if the above three planes got F3 mode, it wouldn't be THAT game breaking. It still performs the same. Cockpit view in the 110 is excellent, Mossie is decent but not great, and the Il2 is horrible, but the Il2 and Bf110 both have gunners.

So I say let all planes with 2 or more persons in it have F3 mode.

[Beefcake]

So I say let all planes with 2 or more persons in it have F3 mode.

Actually the funny thing is the A20 has 2 gunners, the turret gunner and a ventral gunner that fires a 30 cal through a hatch. At the time HTC modeled the A20 they couldn't find good picture references to model the inside of the A20 so they left it out, hopefully that will be changed when it gets remolded.

[titanic3]

Personally, even if F3 mode was added to these planes, I would still use cockpit view because you have a crosshair. Simply judging where to shoot based on tracers seems like a waste of ammo to me.

[skorpion]

See Rules #2, #4, #6

[Karnak]

im just curious.....

how does f3 mode give an A20 the advantage here? a20 is still heavy....still turns slower then fighters... tends to bleed its speed quickly...rips its wings off at about 400mph while it is very manuverable for its weight/size its no fighter.. so f3 mode or not a fighter still has the upper hand....

so f3 mode effects this one how?

also f3 mode is nice in c47s and is helpfull in things like stukas and b5s where you really cant see under you or fly upside down

As in the IL2, F3 view, in theory, allows deflection shots to be made that could not accurately be made from the cockpit due to not being able to see through the nose.

I think it's sort of a fair balance seeing as how almost all planes with F3 mode have a gunner. Only exception is the Bf110, Mossie, and recently added IL2. Think of F3 mode as a way to balance the fact that you had 2 an extra pair of eyes in the plane.

IMO, if the above three planes got F3 mode, it wouldn't be THAT game breaking. It still performs the same. Cockpit view in the 110 is excellent, Mossie is decent but not great, and the Il2 is horrible, but the Il2 and Bf110 both have gunners.

So I say let all planes with 2 or more persons in it have F3 mode.

Neither the Bf110s nor Mosquito VI have F3 view.  It is very simple, if the aircraft is a 'bomber', i.e. spawn is based on the bomber hangars, it has F3 view.  If the aircraft is a 'fighter', i.e. spawn is based on the fighter hangars, it does not have F3 view.  Il-2 was simply moved from the bomber hangar to the fighter hangar.

[surfinn]

OK the f3 mode gives every ac that has it a advantage that it shouldn't have. I very rarely use it myself even when in a massive bomber like the ju87. Those who complain about it being taken away are the ones who use it the most. I personally feel like they are the minority in AH and thus f3 should go away for all ac.

[titanic3]

I know that the Bf110 and Mossie doesn't have F3 mode.

I'm saying that they should, since visibility is good in both aircraft and because both planes have a gunner/co pilot, it would make sense since you're giving the player an advantage over single seat planes. Think of F3 mode as a way to give the player an extra set of eyes.

If you're the pilot and shooting at the enemy, your copilot and/or gunner is probably watching your surroundings for other planes. F3 mode is basically the same thing. You are shooting at a target but is able to see your surroundings as well.

[Rino]

     Sometimes, just sometimes the other guy flew better and that's why they won.  Try not to get the ego all
wrapped up in the fight.  Last flight was ancient history, learn from it and move on.

[Karnak]

I know that the Bf110 and Mossie doesn't have F3 mode.

I'm saying that they should, since visibility is good in both aircraft and because both planes have a gunner/co pilot, it would make sense since you're giving the player an advantage over single seat planes. Think of F3 mode as a way to give the player an extra set of eyes.

If you're the pilot and shooting at the enemy, your copilot and/or gunner is probably watching your surroundings for other planes. F3 mode is basically the same thing. You are shooting at a target but is able to see your surroundings as well.

I disagree.  I do not think that the Mossie or Bf110s should have F3 view.  Mossie XVI shouldn't either, but as it has no guns it is pretty harmless.

If it were up to me, the following aircraft would have F3:

B-17G
B-24J
B-25C
B-25H
B-26B
B-29A
G4M1
Ju88A-4
Ki-67
Lancaster Mk III
TBM-3

If the ventral gun on the A-20G were added, it would make the list too.

[bj229r]

Nobody used F3 on the IL2...they all said so in threads such as this

[icepac]

F3 mode is being abused but I can't comment on whether it was used for the reason this thread exists.

I don't think any plane with pilot controlled forward guns should have F3 because it allows someone to hit f3 then f8 and move the view up to make deflection shots way below the nose while not losing view.

For the main arena, I don't really think any plane should have f3 because it allows heavy bombers to act like stukas where the reality is that the pilots would have a huge struggle to bank the bomber, acquire the ground target once they close within d1500, and then nose down to make the drop.

With F3 even a b29 can fly about dive bombing ground vehicles.

A compromise would be to allow F3 mode from all mannable guns but not the pilot position and bombardier.

This way you still can get outside to admire your beautiful plane.....provided you are in a plane with gunner positions.........or you're not in the main arenas.

[lyric1]

Well guess what in real world a a20 never out fought a fighter ever.

Not quite right there is only a few instances where the western allies used them & only a couple of kills recorded.

The Russians on the other hand did use them a lot as fighters. I have been looking for info & there is not a lot out there. How ever the Russians did a lot of weird & wonderful things with their A20's. Air to air rockets rear ward air to air rockets for enemy's who got on their six & they do have recorded kills that I have been finding out about.


Point being the Russians were thinking out of the box with the A20 we in the west chose not to fight with it & didn't for the most part. With time when more Russian information makes it's way west hopefully we will have a better appreciation for what this aircraft was capable of.

As far as F3 mode is concerned when it next gets remodeled & the ventral gun is added sure get rid of it.

As some one who uses  the A20 & Boston a lot to dog fight with I can tell you shooting in F3 mode is useless. Only time I use F3 mode is to pan about to see who is getting on my six.