F3 mode has got to go

[VonMessa]

I see.  We have the G model.  I never really noticed.

This shows you how often I've even flown one.

The AHWiki states (6) .50 caliber.

Still hardy a cannon bird in wolf's clothing.

Although 6, .50 caliber are dangerous in the right hands, anyone getting caught wallowing around in front of an A-20 long enough to be affected by them is still doing something wrong.

[VonMessa]

vonmesa, the Il2 wasn't changed because it has no ventral gunner. It was changed because very specific tactics were constantly being used to abuse the system so that most of its sorties were an abuse of F3 in a way the plane should or could never have flown.

It had nothing to do with the bomber classification as much as the way this "bomber" plane was wildly abused and used in AH. Just the overall manner it's used as a fighter against base takes once FH are down, the way it would bob and weave in F3 in negative G porpoise flops (which you can't do in F1 mode because you'd crash and you couldn't see where the enemy was to do it), and all that jazz.

Because of this, the changing of the IL2 is more an exception than the rule. Like the Chog being perked. It was done only as a reaction to the way AH mis-used the item in question.

Going back to F3 without consideration of the IL2's loss of it, it is based on the craft class rather than the gunner placement.

It definitely is easy to abuse, and it definitely is a crutch. I saw enough HTH folks crying about losing F3 in certain rooms way back to notice that. However it is a case-by-case basis and purely decided by HTC. There is no single rule to define its application in AH. You are right in that it is designed to simulate multiple eyes in multiple directions, but this is not dependent on the gun position those eyes are placed. It's boolean. Either on or off.

P.S. If we were to ever receive a Ju88C or solid nose variant, I'd definitely want F3 disabled on it. They were flown as heavy fighters.



Has anybody ever suggested the only planes to get F3 should be those that have formations? Seems like a reasonable "general rule" (with any exceptions HTC deems warranted down the line)

Regardless of how gamey or abusive of coding it may be, it still begs the question of what in the hell got a fighter plane in front of the guns of such a slow, plodding and not-quite-as-nimble of a plane as a medium bomber?

I don't really see how having an F3 mode on such a plane gives an advantage beyond a visual one.

Stay away from the frontal guns.  Just like one shouldn't hang around the back end of Lancaster.

It is too easy.

[grizz441]

vonmesa, the Il2 wasn't changed because it has no ventral gunner. It was changed because very specific tactics were constantly being used to abuse the system so that most of its sorties were an abuse of F3 in a way the plane should or could never have flown.

It had nothing to do with the bomber classification as much as the way this "bomber" plane was wildly abused and used in AH. Just the overall manner it's used as a fighter against base takes once FH are down, the way it would bob and weave in F3 in negative G porpoise flops (which you can't do in F1 mode because you'd crash and you couldn't see where the enemy was to do it), and all that jazz.

Because of this, the changing of the IL2 is more an exception than the rule. Like the Chog being perked. It was done only as a reaction to the way AH mis-used the item in question.

Going back to F3 without consideration of the IL2's loss of it, it is based on the craft class rather than the gunner placement.

It definitely is easy to abuse, and it definitely is a crutch. I saw enough HTH folks crying about losing F3 in certain rooms way back to notice that. However it is a case-by-case basis and purely decided by HTC. There is no single rule to define its application in AH. You are right in that it is designed to simulate multiple eyes in multiple directions, but this is not dependent on the gun position those eyes are placed. It's boolean. Either on or off.

P.S. If we were to ever receive a Ju88C or solid nose variant, I'd definitely want F3 disabled on it. They were flown as heavy fighters.



Has anybody ever suggested the only planes to get F3 should be those that have formations? Seems like a reasonable "general rule" (with any exceptions HTC deems warranted down the line)

Again, I really have a hard time sympathizing with B&Z'ers holding all the cards, diving on IL2's to bounce them, only to overshoot and get blasted.  Whenever I dove on Ghi's IL2 to pick him and subsequently overshot and got blasted, I always felt like a horse's bellybutton for being lazy and letting him kill me in that fashion.  Blaming the 150 mph IL2 for the fact that you missed him and died is just an epic whine.

Bleed my heart does not.

[skorpion]

Again, I really have a hard time sympathizing with B&Z'ers holding all the cards, diving on IL2's to bounce them, only to overshoot and get blasted.  Whenever I dove on Ghi's IL2 to pick him and subsequently overshot and got blasted, I always felt like a horse's bellybutton for being lazy and letting him kill me in that fashion.  Blaming the 150 mph IL2 for the fact that you missed him and died is just an epic whine.

Bleed my heart does not.

whenever i know an IL2 is ghi, i clench my butt cheeks, dive down, shoot and hope he doesnt pistol whip me in the neck and blasts my wings off with the 37mm's...

[Vinkman]

Again, I really have a hard time sympathizing with B&Z'ers holding all the cards, diving on IL2's to bounce them, only to overshoot and get blasted.  Whenever I dove on Ghi's IL2 to pick him and subsequently overshot and got blasted, I always felt like a horse's bellybutton for being lazy and letting him kill me in that fashion.  Blaming the 150 mph IL2 for the fact that you missed him and died is just an epic whine.

Bleed my heart does not.

GHi always flew in a low horde. This forced the bandit's speed up so the bandit wouldn't simply get picked by one od Ghi's 15 wingmen. The only reason you overshot without "Sploding" him, was due to him watching you coming from F3 mode and timing a stick stir to minimize hits, which the contrete IL-2 could absorb, so he would be alive to shoot you on the pass.

Without F3 mode this strategy and technique is kaput as it should be. Never had a problem killing him when there was no horde. Slow down, turn the plane, Boom. 

[grizz441]

GHi always flew in a low horde. This forced the bandit's speed up so the bandit wouldn't simply get picked by one od Ghi's 15 wingmen. The only reason you overshot without "Sploding" him, was due to him watching you coming from F3 mode and timing a stick stir to minimize hits, which the contrete IL-2 could absorb, so he would be alive to shoot you on the pass.

Without F3 mode this strategy and technique is kaput as it should be. Never had a problem killing him when there was no horde. Slow down, turn the plane, Boom. 

He always flew in a "low" horde? 

I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times.  He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble.  Whether or not others joined him was independent.

Side Note: I don't believe a bunch of low defenders can ever be classified as a "horde".

[VonMessa]

He always flew in a "low" horde? 

I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times.  He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble.  Whether or not others joined him was independent.

Side Note: I don't believe a bunch of low defenders can ever be classified as a "horde".

I would be inclined to agree with that.

Hordes travel. 

Defenders do so when they are willing and able.  If there are a lot of defenders at a field, it is because there were a lot that were willing and able.  It is not because they all traveled there from some other location to cause damage.

[Vinkman]

He always flew in a "low" horde?  

I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times.  He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble.  Whether or not others joined him was independent.

Side Note: I don't believe a bunch of low defenders can ever be classified as a "horde".

 That's exactly what was refering to. Show up at base and there are 10-15 bandits running around on the deck, and the ACK is up. Looked like a horde to me, but if you don't want to classify that sa a horde, I won't argue.  To me a "Horde" is when they have so many planes that no matter which way the plane I'm chasing turns, someone has his back.

[guncrasher]

a horde is like a ho.  only the other people do it.

semp

[VonMessa]

That's exactly what was refering to. Show up at base and there are 10-15 bandits running around on the deck, and the ACK is up. Looked like a horde to me, but if you don't want to classify that sa a horde, I won't argue.  To me a "Horde" is when they have so many planes that no matter which way the plane I'm chasing turns, someone has his back.

That is because all of your friends died before you....

[Delirium]

I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times.  He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble.  Whether or not others joined him was independent.

I agree with Grizz on this one. I didn't consider the Il2s F3 mode a game changer either, but it did force you do be a lot more careful when flying straight up the rectum.

Unfortunately, his tactics caught on and soon there was several Il2s doing the same maneuver. They looked like a school of dolphins (pod for you anal retentive types), and like anything else, if the community can't police itself, HTC will do it for us.

[VonMessa]

I agree with Grizz on this one. I didn't consider the Il2s F3 mode a game changer either, but it did force you do be a lot more careful when flying straight up the rectum.

Unfortunately, his tactics caught on and soon there was several Il2s doing the same maneuver. They looked like a school of dolphins (pod for you anal retentive types), and like anything else, if the community can't police itself, HTC will do it for us.

I just don't think that the A20 is as stout of a plane as the IL2 is and therefore, should be quite damaged on a pass.  Especially with cannons.

A lot more than the IL2 was, at any rate.

[Delirium]

I just don't think that the A20 is as stout of a plane as the IL2 is and therefore, should be quite damaged on a pass.  Especially with cannons.

I find they have similar amounts of armor, the biggest difference is the size of the A20 which generally leads to more hits.

[mechanic]

Ghi is one of my heroes in this game. Always got a salute form me in that il2 of his.

[surfinn]

I shouldn't drink and post. Semp I apologize for my earlyear comment it was uncalled for