F3 mode has got to go

[cobia38]

Ghi quit flying the IL2 after the change, it must have been a bigger game-changer than non-IL2-flying people can observe

 i think the switch to fighter hanger had more impact then anything

[JUGgler]

The thing that continues to amaze me is the amount of people who think that gunning in F3 actually gives you some huge advantage. I've tried to gun in F3, however, I had a problem. There was this big plane blocking or distorting my view of the enemy.
 

It is an advantage!, the 12 oclock shot is only marginaly more difficult in F3, every single other shot angle (which btw is most shots) is much improved in F3. If you drop F3 view for all planes with fwd firing guns, then they would cease to be used in such unrealistic fashion!

You certainly would put an end to the "Boston Strangler" 



JUGgler

[mechanic]

why not just stop guns being able to be fired from F3 like lots have mentioned?

[JUGgler]

why not just stop guns being able to be fired from F3 like lots have mentioned?

This would be fine, but wouldn't it be better if all the "inplane views" were from actual positions that the plane actually has? whatever view is chosen ie: rear gunner, top gunner, waist gunner etc should be adjustable just like "fighter views" and settable with F10. If your plane lacks a position, guess what you don't get to see from that position.

Although I use F3 and find it fun at times, using it to flop around in a JU88, Boston or A20 making everyone look silly is just gamey as hell. There is other ways that would be more realistic and less gamey.


The drop in IL2 kills proves just how gamey F3 view is, many said they never use F3 in the IL2, well the proof is in the puding and they have been exposed as "untruthers" 



JUGgler

[Karnak]

This would be fine, but wouldn't it be better if all the "inplane views" were from actual positions that the plane actually has? whatever view is chosen ie: rear gunner, top gunner, waist gunner etc should be adjustable just like "fighter views" and settable with F10. If your plane lacks a position, guess what you don't get to see from that position.

The flaw I see with that is that when you leave a turret it might be in a position that effectively blocks the view.  Ball turrets in particular seem to have limited visibility and if it were facing the wrong was when last you moved it, the view from the preset might simply be of the inside of the back armor plate of the ball.  Normally I'd expect the turret would be in constant motion with the gunner looking around.

In addition, most hat systems on joystick's have trouble displaying more than half a globe's worth of views and on many bombers you'd need a full globe's worth.

I am also not sure how well that would work for people with TrackIR.

[Butcher]

hey hey ho ho f3 mode has got to go

I hope you won't complain next about how LVT's have the Armor of a Tiger Tank (oh wait few months ago) Your Yak-T got glancing blows on my LVT and you accused me of cheating.

reminds me of RedDevil who complains every 15 seconds of <insert reason to complain here>

/I do agree A20s need to lose F3 view, bomb****s would commit LawnDart like Ghi did when the Il-2 disappeared from base defense

[Tilt]

The flaw I see with that is that when you leave a turret it might be in a position that effectively blocks the view.  Ball turrets in particular seem to have limited visibility and if it were facing the wrong was when last you moved it, the view from the preset might simply be of the inside of the back armor plate of the ball.  Normally I'd expect the turret would be in constant motion with the gunner looking around.

In addition, most hat systems on joystick's have trouble displaying more than half a globe's worth of views and on many bombers you'd need a full globe's worth.

I am also not sure how well that would work for people with TrackIR.

With trakIR the view hat still functions I use both.

Moving to a turret obviously sets your 12 view with respect to the direction the turret is pointing. I think a system that allowed you preset hat views from different perspectives in the AC (that include gunner positions) from the cockpit would have to set the  view reference of the ac and not the current position of the gun.

If you wanted to fire the gun you have to move to it and once there you may have a diferent set of views to those you have set using F10 from the cockpit.

If (from the cockpit) you want only the gunners view perspective  (e.g when looking back, or back up, or back right etc etc) then you can flick around the ac using such preset perspectives as you have configured in the cockpit using F10 as JUGler indicates.

[Ruah]

the only reason to dogfight in an A20 is because the b-hangars are still up and the f-hangars are all down and you need to defend.  I have yet to see an A20 actually up from a healthy base that is not there to kill GVs.

plus, dispite F3, its still a relativly easy kill even if it is a bullet sponge. . .

[cobia38]

the only reason to dogfight in an A20 is because the b-hangars are still up and the f-hangars are all down and you need to defend.  I have yet to see an A20 actually up from a healthy base that is not there to kill GVs.

plus, dispite F3, its still a relativly easy kill even if it is a bullet sponge. . .

         




.

[xtyger]

The drop in IL2 kills proves just how gamey F3 view is, many said they never use F3 in the IL2, well the proof is in the puding and they have been exposed as "untruthers" 
JUGgler

And I'm one that always used f3 in the il2. It was probably my favorite plane when it had f3. Now I hardly ever fly it. As far as I'm concerned the plane is near worthless without f3, having the worst cockpit view of any attack plane in mid war.

I think I'd be willing to pay extra each month just have have f3 returned to the il2.

[JOACH1M]

I hope you won't complain next about how LVT's have the Armor of a Tiger Tank (oh wait few months ago) Your Yak-T got glancing blows on my LVT and you accused me of cheating.

reminds me of RedDevil who complains every 15 seconds of <insert reason to complain here>

/I do agree A20s need to lose F3 view, bombers would commit LawnDart like Ghi did when the Il-2 disappeared from base defense

maybe if we could fly f18's we could be as good as you

[JUGgler]

And I'm one that always used f3 in the il2. It was probably my favorite plane when it had f3. Now I hardly ever fly it. As far as I'm concerned the plane is near worthless without f3, having the worst cockpit view of any attack plane in mid war.

I think I'd be willing to pay extra each month just have have f3 returned to the il2.

I actually think removing F3 from the sturmovik was rash and premature, it only helps the vulchers with a slight help to GVs. To take it from one plane was not wise, to remove it from ALL planes flown in ways they traditionaly couldn't, would have been the correct "knee jerk reaction"


It is sad that the change made vulching easier and less risky, now there is nothing to cull some of the "overshooting" vulchtards when FHs are down. IMHO it was a poor choice to remove F3 from just one plane! The ONLY beneficiaries to the change are the "teenage crotch wetting vulchers"     

Have a standard for ALL planes or have standards for none!!



JUGgler

[guncrasher]

I actually think removing F3 from the sturmovik was rash and premature, it only helps the vulchers with a slight help to GVs. To take it from one plane was not wise, to remove it from ALL planes flown in ways they traditionaly couldn't, would have been the correct "knee jerk reaction"


It is sad that the change made vulching easier and less risky, now there is nothing to cull some of the "overshooting" vulchtards when FHs are down. IMHO it was a poor choice to remove F3 from just one plane! The ONLY beneficiaries to the change are the "teenage crotch wetting vulchers"     

Have a standard for ALL planes or have standards for none!!



JUGgler

totally agree with you on this one.  it was fun shooting ghi down .  he's using the a20 now, but seriously if you get shot down by one, then it's nobody's fault except your own.  as the only way would be for the a20 to get you when you were really low and slow.

semp

[Rich52]

totally agree with you on this one.  it was fun shooting ghi down .  he's using the a20 now, but seriously if you get shot down by one, then it's nobody's fault except your own.  as the only way would be for the a20 to get you when you were really low and slow.

semp

The A-20 is the freaking Death Star compared to the IL2. But still the little Waaa-Waaa's got its F3 taken away anyways.

[Ack-Ack]

the only reason to dogfight in an A20 is because the b-hangars are still up and the f-hangars are all down and you need to defend.  I have yet to see an A20 actually up from a healthy base that is not there to kill GVs.

plus, dispite F3, its still a relativly easy kill even if it is a bullet sponge. . .

You've never seen cobia38 fly the A-20 or a few years ago, Bullz.  Both fly the A-20 exclusively 99% of the time as a fighter.

ack-ack