When Is It Alright to HO?

[ink]

well if the shoe fits..... 

It's not that I "can't" I just prefer not to. I like to maneuver until I'm behind their 3-9 line and THEN take my shot.

I used to be all about saddling someone...my first 4 years or so that's all I thought about...I dreamed about.....I wanted them to "know" they were beat.....best way is to saddle them........but that is not true.....if you set up the angle and kill them faster no matter the angle........you beat them.....so I now go for angles, will definitely avoid the HO for the most part, but in the MA anything goes if they are flying stupidly i will take the HO shot.....

someone said before HO's "keep the fight honest" and I cant agree more, if you know they wont fire in a HO...then you fly by with out concern, and then its just who can pull the stick faster...with a possible HO shot it makes you think in other terms.....ie.... How to get around him with out letting him get guns.

[grizz441]

It's not that I "can't" I just prefer not to. I like to maneuver until I'm behind their 3-9 line and THEN take my shot.

I like to kill the enemy the first chance I get that puts myself at no risk.  Since HO's put me at significant risk I avoid these.  Since front quarter shots put me at no risk, I pounce on these.

[bj229r]

I like to kill the enemy the first chance I get that puts myself at no risk.  Since HO's put me at significant risk I avoid these.  Since front quarter shots put me at no risk, I pounce on these.

Those few degrees of difference probably comprise most of the 200 talk on any given night

[dirtdart]

I used to fly around in a Mossie and HO everything in sight and then love the name in lights from my ill-gotten gains.  Then I got into a discussion with WMLute about it, and he sent me the below email I thought I would share.  To this day, I will not HO at all, even at a loss.  I think it is kind of like kicking someone in the junk or you are the sort which is more interested in name in lights than actually learning how to fly.  <S>

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: dirtdart on: June 28, 2008, 06:19:15 AM »
 
QuoteReplyRemove


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http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
http://www.netaces.org/

the trainers page is a fount of knowledge.  (tons of info there)

shaw has excellent writeups on the various planes, but it's somewhat outdated.  Still it is really good stuff.  10 years ago I printed out almost everything on that site, put in in a 3-ring binder, and I would pour over it during breaks at work and in my free time.  (Eventually I had 4 3-ring binders full of plane info, flight tactics, ets)

Gonzo is one of the "great ones" of the ww2 flight sim community.  His exploits are legendary.  He setup a handy website that will allow you to compare the diff. aircraft.  Very usefull.

Netaces has been around for years and years, and is chocked full of important stuff that you need to learn.

As far as training, you can email trainers@flyaceshigh.com and they all get it.  They are a helpfull bunch who have vast amounts of knowledge and can teach most seasoned "vets" in the game a thing or two.

As far as a plane, well, they really don't matter that much.  It's 80% pilot and only 20% plane (in my humble opinion) so I would suggest sticking with that Spit VIII and learning ACM.  There is no magical ride that will make you a better pilot.

A crappy pilot in a Spit XVI will usually die to a good pilot in a p40e.  It's the pilot not the plane that matters.  So work on your piloting ability.  Log some hours with TC, WideWing, Murdr, or any of the Trainers and practice practice practice.

Good luck with it all, and I hope next time we tangle it's a great fight and you shoot my arse down.  I would rather die in a great fight than win 50 easy ones.

<S> sir

[Puma44]

As far as training, you can email trainers@flyaceshigh.com and they all get it.  They are a helpfull bunch who have vast amounts of knowledge and can teach most seasoned "vets" in the game a thing or two.

As far as a plane, well, they really don't matter that much.  It's 80% pilot and only 20% plane (in my humble opinion) so I would suggest sticking with that Spit VIII and learning ACM.  There is no magical ride that will make you a better pilot.

A crappy pilot in a Spit XVI will usually die to a good pilot in a p40e.  It's the pilot not the plane that matters.  So work on your piloting ability.  Log some hours with TC, WideWing, Murdr, or any of the Trainers and practice practice practice.
[/quote/]

"Hamburger is still hamburger, no matter what you wrap it in".  Anonymous F-4E fighter pilot after hammering an F-15A in DACT.

[TeeArr]

When is alright to HO?  Never!  Or Always, or sometimes, depending on who you listen to.

[bj229r]

Take note of the success rates of those in each camp

[mtnman]

someone said before HO's "keep the fight honest" and I cant agree more, if you know they wont fire in a HO...then you fly by with out concern, and then its just who can pull the stick faster...with a possible HO shot it makes you think in other terms.....ie.... How to get around him with out letting him get guns.

Agree, 100%...

[mthrockmor]

So tonight, first off this map just SUCKS! It's flying over the Himalays to get into anything. Why do we have this crappy map?!?!

Then when we get to the fight, I was ho'd in all five fights. Just maddening. Yes, it's about avoiding and being a better pilot but when nimrod after nimrod flys through just holding their trigger down...makes for such an enjoyable evening. I think I'll take a week off.

Boo

[Lab Rat 3947]

Remember the 3rd Mad Max Movie, Thunderdome?

Rule No. 1 - There are no rules.

Rule No. 2 - See Rule No. 1.

Seriously, though, while I do like front quarter shots, if my target sees me coming and it looks like they are turning to HO. Oh, well.

Cross my gunsight and I will shoot.

Just one old man's opinion. 

[dedalos]

A better thread would  be "Why do you HO?".  It would be a treasure of why and comments from people that do but claim they don't.

If you willingly walk into a ring to fight and all you do is go for the kick in the nuts, because you can, don;t expect much respect from the <insert fighting sport> community.  There is only one reason to fight like that.  Get the kill/win and see your name in lights either because you can't do it any other way or because you need your name in lights to maintain the "I am the best" status.  Claiming you only faked the kick in the nuts or it was a kick on the leg instead is BS (in my opinion).  If you guys thought it was really OK, no one would ever get mad when asked why or deny doing it by claiming 1 degree deflection nut kick. 

Better yet, if you jump in a ring that a couple or more guys are already fighting and you run around them looking for an opportunity to Kick someone in the nuts, don;t expect any respect either.

Here is the hypocrisy guys.  So far, no one has said anything about the HOs that cause the complains.  Every one that is for HOing is presenting examples that it could be fine by any ones standards.  Do any of you that think it is always OK mind explaining why would you come in for the HO when someone is already involved in a fight with one or more cons?  Risking a collision and damage in the process and ending someone else fight and stealing his kill?  And you know that was not the only fight available so lets try some other reason.  So, any aces care to explain how or why is that acceptable and should be practiced at all times or are we going to stick with the sanitized examples of going for the HO?

[hotard]

You'll never catch me complaining on 200 about a HO (wouldn't that light up the chat??) But if there is 1 HO I despise, it's the chump that will HO you in a 2-3-4 v 1 fight. Those are some of the best fights I've had in the MA because it forces you to have great SA, anticipate and plan your maneuvers. A real chess game in 3d.  But when you got one clown that won't take a minute to get an angle, but just barrels in guns blazing on top of the advantage of numbers, I just shake my head.

In a 1v1 merge, and I'm staring down your gun barrels, maybe I'll HO you, maybe I won't..** just depends on my mood. If I don't feel like HOing you.. I'll avoid you and you NEVER EVER will land telling hits.  If you show me a slightly off angle merge, and I know you arn't going to HO.. fights on.
** Does not apply to brews. I take any shot I can get on those over modeled POS's any time, any where.

[DrBone1]

I shot titanic in the face a few nights ago. 

[Wiley]

You'll never catch me complaining on 200 about a HO (wouldn't that light up the chat??) But if there is 1 HO I despise, it's the chump that will HO you in a 2-3-4 v 1 fight. Those are some of the best fights I've had in the MA because it forces you to have great SA, anticipate and plan your maneuvers. A real chess game in 3d.  But when you got one clown that won't take a minute to get an angle, but just barrels in guns blazing on top of the advantage of numbers, I just shake my head.

I have a question about this scenario.  I've occasionally been number 3 or 4 in on a guy in the past who's turning for his life.

In those instances, from the time I committed to engaging the guy until I actually pulled the trigger, he's quite often made 2 or 3 or more turns in that time.  If you're facing him after all those maneuvers, why would you expect that he not shoot you in the face?

Wiley.

[dedalos]

I have a question about this scenario.  I've occasionally been number 3 or 4 in on a guy in the past who's turning for his life.

In those instances, from the time I committed to engaging the guy until I actually pulled the trigger, he's quite often made 2 or 3 or more turns in that time.  If you're facing him after all those maneuvers, why would you expect that he not shoot you in the face?

Wiley.

  Why are you even there is the better question.  It cannot be for the fight since 4 vs 1 is only fun for the 1, it cant be for the kill since you have a very small chance of getting it (the other guys may have rounds in him already) so at best you have a 25% or less of getting it, it can't be cause it is smart game play since you just gave up speed and alt to join;    Why are you there?  What are you trying to accomplish?