Meat

[Penguin]

that is a complete load of BS. my uncle worked in a slaughterhouse for 15 years, never once did he say that they skinned the animal while it was still alive.


not to mention your source is wikipedia....and well, research cat deems wikipedia unacceptable.
(Image removed from quote.)

Since when are you the research cat?

That just goes to show how little you actually know and how you will over look many things just to take out the part that applies to your cause......read the process part of your wiki..



For her book Slaughterhouse, Gail Eisnitz, chief investigator for the Humane Farming Association (HFA), interviewed slaughterhouse workers in the U.S. who say that, because of the speed with which they are required to work, animals are routinely skinned while apparently alive, and still blinking, kicking, and shrieking. Eisnitz argues that this is not only cruel to the animals, but also dangerous for the human workers, as cows weighing several thousands of pounds thrashing around in pain are likely to kick out and debilitate anyone working near them.[7]

According to the HFA, Eiznitz interviewed slaughterhouse workers representing over two million hours of experience, who, without exception, told her that they have beaten, strangled, boiled, and dismembered animals alive, or have failed to report those who do. The workers described the effects the violence has had on their personal lives, with several admitting to being physically abusive or taking to alcohol and other drugs.[8]   

Honestly you bleat on about wanting to debate..well do it properly...at present and for many others you have not debated on facts but rather personal thought

Now that little bit you wrote up...you left out the fact that they said apparently alive....This process is pretty quick and a body of any description twitches just after death.

Have you ever caught a fish...and stabbed it's head to kill it humanely and seen how long it still moves (let's not get into the barbaric way in which said fish was snared hahaha)


Now that last part I have left in there because yes there are individuals who do mistreat sometimes in these places but that is not the general way of the company...usually these individuals are dealt with accordingly as it is not general practice .....I know of one such case here where a friend who was a sparky working saw abuse of animals by an individual and he was dismissed and...charged with animal cruelty

Reread the passage yourself; the wiki first says 'apparently alive', and then just 'alive'. 

According to the HFA, Eiznitz interviewed slaughterhouse workers representing over two million hours of experience, who, without exception, told her that they have beaten, strangled, boiled, and dismembered animals alive, or have failed to report those who do. The workers described the effects the violence has had on their personal lives, with several admitting to being physically abusive or taking to alcohol and other drugs.[8]

-Penguin

[SPKmes]

Since when are you the research cat?

Reread the passage yourself; the wiki first says 'apparently alive', and then just 'alive'. 

According to the HFA, Eiznitz interviewed slaughterhouse workers representing over two million hours of experience, who, without exception, told her that they have beaten, strangled, boiled, and dismembered animals alive, or have failed to report those who do. The workers described the effects the violence has had on their personal lives, with several admitting to being physically abusive or taking to alcohol and other drugs.[8]

-Penguin

dude read the bottom of my post.. I addressed that (cause I knew you would have to retort with it).... out of the whole industry the number of these people are a small percentage of the actual overall....yes  it does happen  but that is the mentality of some humans not of a company....
There will always be somebody there to be fore and against things...the ones that you hear about are those who make the most noise....

Oh yeah and most of the guys who work in these places have been there since birth so to speak....they are born into it...places like this are a cream job and a lot of the time employment is by knowing somebody there......so it is not too hard to say a combined 2 million hours of experience..... as I say people on the extreme side (both) use and manipulate information to enhance their cause...they make the most noise so are heard more than the rational ones

Oh yes and PS.  This just proves my point...now.. only after you were called on it do you offer to use all of the quote...you at first went off the first paragraph omitted a few words and said this is gospel.....now you use the entire piece and use the latter part of it to try and cover your point..however in the original you stated only about skinning alive .....  see...we can all pick things that we want to use...but to be more rounded in your debate will win you more than it will lose....  just my opinion though...it is how I try to look at things... but I am not as you can probably tell a very theoretical person...I am but a simple layman...


 

[Penguin]

dude read the bottom of my post.. I addressed that (cause I knew you would have to retort with it).... out of the whole industry the number of these people are a small percentage of the actual overall....yes  it does happen  but that is the mentality of some humans not of a company....
There will always be somebody there to be fore and against things...the ones that you hear about are those who make the most noise....

Oh yeah and most of the guys who work in these places have been there since birth so to speak....they are born into it...places like this are a cream job and a lot of the time employment is by knowing somebody there......so it is not too hard to say a combined 2 million hours of experience..... as I say people on the extreme side (both) use and manipulate information to enhance their cause...they make the most noise so are heard more than the rational ones

Oh yes and PS.  This just proves my point...now.. only after you were called on it do you offer to use all of the quote...you at first went off the first paragraph omitted a few words and said this is gospel.....now you use the entire piece and use the latter part of it to try and cover your point..however in the original you stated only about skinning alive .....  see...we can all pick things that we want to use...but to be more rounded in your debate will win you more than it will lose....  just my opinion though...it is how I try to look at things... but I am not as you can probably tell a very theoretical person...I am but a simple layman...


 

So you're saying that 2 million hours of experience isn't much because meatpackers begin work much earlier than others.  Alright, I want to do the math on this:

Let's assume a 40 hour work week
2 million divided by 40= 50 000 weeks
50 weeks in a work year = 1,000 years
Let's say they go all-out cradle-to-coffin, 1,000/80= approximately 12 men

Wow, I never thought that it could work out to such a small number.  Perhaps the extreme overplayed it- it seems like slaughterhouses are surprisingly humane.

-Penguin

[mechanic]

Where did I claim that all one needed was love?  You still didn't answer my hippy question.  I was being optimistic, but where did love come into the picture?  What are you talking about?

I think you're oversimplifying things.  While killing people in a holocaust is unacceptable, if you're going to kill them, don't torture them.  The same applies to slaughterhouses and industrial farming.  The animals live in incredibly crampt quarters, literally stepping in each other's turds.  Sure, they live, but it would be nice if they could live better.

-Penguin

Youre being rather dense. Obviously the example of how optimism alone is fruitless went over your head.

Besides, you have not answered my on-topic question at all. Would the holocaust have been more acceptable if five star hotels were used to wait for the gas chamber instead of concentration camps? However you try to sugar coat things, animals are going to die for our food. In many respects, making an animal feel safe and comfortable before slaughtering it is more cruel than letting it poop itself into numb terror before the chop.

[Penguin]

No, it wouldn't have been more acceptable.  Those people had families and all that.  However, if they were going to be killed, giving them a good life beforehand wouldn't be evil.  My point was that how you live is just as important as how you die.  Until we get lab-meat, you're right.

-Penguin

[canacka]

All animals have their place in this world, it just happens to be right next to my mashed potatoes! 

[canacka]

I always come late to the party because I want to tell penguin about a comment he made a few pages back about killing living things and how he wishes that we didn't have to.  What would you call a plant found on a distant planet there bud? Plant LIFE?  Plants are living things they are just easier to catch!

[2ADoc]

My question is does he smack a mosquito when it lands on him and sucks his blood?  That is killing and you can't even eat it, well you can but you might get worms.

[SPKmes]

So you're saying that 2 million hours of experience isn't much because meatpackers begin work much earlier than others.  Alright, I want to do the math on this:

Let's assume a 40 hour work week
2 million divided by 40= 50 000 weeks
50 weeks in a work year = 1,000 years
Let's say they go all-out cradle-to-coffin, 1,000/80= approximately 12 men

Wow, I never thought that it could work out to such a small number.  Perhaps the extreme overplayed it- it seems like slaughterhouses are surprisingly humane.

-Penguin

    Honestly    yes they did...see above....

[Jayhawk]

My point is that just because you're a human doesn't make you better than a cow. 

-Penguin

Haven't read this entire thread, but this one stood out to me.

I'm better than a cow.

[Dichotomy]

[Dichotomy]

[Jayhawk]

[Dichotomy]

  Jayhawk 

[Xtrepid]

Relevant or not... it was a good watch on PBS WTTW POV.

http://www.foodincmovie.com/


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