The Spitfire XIV Q

[Karnak]

It's a lot easier to do in every other plane.

There is a reason all other fighter has a single engine.

There were a number of twin engined fighters in WWII.  We even have three of them in AH.

Only the P-38 was really competitive with single engined fighters, though the Mosquito could hold its own if flown with a little panache.

Twin engined fighters of WWII:

Beaufighter
Bf110
Fokker G.1
J1N1
Ki-45
Ki-46
Ki-102
Me210
Me410
Mosquito
P-38
P-61
Whirlwind

[ink]

If the pilot is good he can dogfight a goon and win, but he'll go a much better job doing it in a Spitfire (or any other fighter than can dogfight).

thats beside the point....do you retract your statement that 152's can only BnZ?

[MachFly]

thats beside the point....do you retract your statement that 152's can only BnZ?

I'll rephrase it, it's only good for BnZing. If your turning fighting in it you made a wrong decision taking it and should be flying something else.

[MachFly]

There were a number of twin engined fighters in WWII.  We even have three of them in AH.

Only the P-38 was really competitive with single engined fighters, though the Mosquito could hold its own if flown with a little panache.

Twin engined fighters of WWII:

Beaufighter
Bf110
Fokker G.1
J1N1
Ki-45
Ki-46
Ki-102
Me210
Me410
Mosquito
P-38
P-61
Whirlwind

Out of that list P-38 is the closest thing to a fighter.

If I were to post a list of WWII single engine fighters it would be a lot longer. If twins were indeed better fighters everyone would be making twins.

[Karnak]

I'll rephrase it, it's only good for BnZing. If your turning fighting in it you made a wrong decision taking it and should be flying something else.

The same exact thing can be said about the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Out of that list P-38 is the closest thing to a fighter.

If I were to post a list of WWII single engine fighters it would be a lot longer. If twins were indeed better fighters everyone would be making twins.

Nobody said they were better, just that they were fighters.  You claimed there was only a single twin engined fighter.

[MachFly]

The same exact thing can be said about the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Not really. It's a lot better at BnZing than other Spitfires are it's nowhere near the best at it. Also it can actually turn fight, sure it's not the best at it but it can outturn anything it can't outrun or outclimb.

Nobody said they were better, just that they were fighters.  You claimed there was only a single twin engined fighter.

Okay I'll agree they are fighters, but they suck at turn fighting.

[Karnak]

Not really. It's a lot better at BnZing than other Spitfires are it's nowhere near the best at it. Also it can actually turn fight, sure it's not the best at it but it can outturn anything it can't outrun or outclimb.

Most of the fighters in the game will easily out turn the Spitfire Mk XIV.  I know you keep insisting otherwise, but you're wrong.  Further, there are a at least two fighters that can match or beat it in turning that are also faster, the F4U-4 and the La-7.  High altitude speed means jack, drag an La-7 up there and see what happens.  I have.

[MachFly]

Most of the fighters in the game will easily out turn the Spitfire Mk XIV.  I know you keep insisting otherwise, but you're wrong.  Further, there are a at least two fighters that can match or beat it in turning that are also faster, the F4U-4 and the La-7.  High altitude speed means jack, drag an La-7 up there and see what happens.  I have.

The only airplanes that will easily out turn a Spit14 are a good 100mph slower. F4U-4 does come close but as long as the Spitfire pilot does not drop his speed F4U's flaps wont help much. I'll also add that F4U-4 is better than Spit14, in Aces High (not in real life).

Spit14 can easily out turn the La-7. La-7 sucks above 5K, Spit14 is actually good there.

[Plazus]

Zero sucks in a dive even more. Compare P-38s diving ability with Spitfire, P-51, F4U, 190, ect...

But in your previous statement, you specifically said that every other plane can dive easier than the P38. You say one thing, yet say another.

You know how to kill P-38s when they are on your six? Enter a dive and have him follow you, than pull out and watch him crash.

Those who follow you in a dive and crash their P38s either were not paying attention to their altitudes, or they just simply do not know how to fly the P38.

BTW in AH you can pull the 38 out of a dive with trim, because for some reason trim is immune to compression effects. This needs to be fixed.

It appears that you really do not know what you are talking about then. There is a reason why aircraft have trim tabs on control surfaces. They not only assist in relieving stick pressure, but help control the attitude of the aircraft, particularly at high speeds. I'm sure someone who is knowledgeable in aerodynamics could explain how trim tabs work better than I can.

Try taking a Spitfire, 190, P40, 109, or any plane and put it in a dive. Go fast enough to where your stick cannot maneuver the aircraft. Start trimming your elevators up and you will pull out of a dive (assuming you don't pull too many Gs and rip off your wings).

[MachFly]

But in your previous statement, you specifically said that every other plane can dive easier than the P38. You say one thing, yet say another.

I said most other planes, not all.

It can be done, but it's a lot harder than most other planes.

Those who follow you in a dive and crash their P38s either were not paying attention to their altitudes, or they just simply do not know how to fly the P38.

It appears that you really do not know what you are talking about then. There is a reason why aircraft have trim tabs on control surfaces. They not only assist in relieving stick pressure, but help control the attitude of the aircraft, particularly at high speeds. I'm sure someone who is knowledgeable in aerodynamics could explain how trim tabs work better than I can.

Try taking a Spitfire, 190, P40, 109, or any plane and put it in a dive. Go fast enough to where your stick cannot maneuver the aircraft. Start trimming your elevators up and you will pull out of a dive (assuming you don't pull too many Gs and rip off your wings).

This is not realistic and needs to be fixed. In case of Aces High it's still a lot easier to pull out of a dive with the stick than using trim.

[Plazus]

It's a lot easier to do in every other plane. 

I said most other planes, not all.

Nope. Looks like "every other" to me.

This is not realistic and needs to be fixed. In case of Aces High it's still a lot easier to pull out of a dive with the stick than using trim.

If you can provide real factual evidence that support your claim, then I will stop harassing you.

[ink]

The only airplanes that will easily out turn a Spit14 are a good 100mph slower. F4U-4 does come close but as long as the Spitfire pilot does not drop his speed F4U's flaps wont help much. I'll also add that F4U-4 is better than Spit14, in Aces High (not in real life).

Spit14 can easily out turn the La-7. La-7 sucks above 5K, Spit14 is actually good there.

 

[Karnak]

As you didn't get my point, I will be blunt about it.  I drug a La-7 to 22,000ft and turned on him.  He stuck around for a single turn before realizing how outclassed he was and dove away down to the altitudes at which he had the edge.  The Spitfire Mk XIV's dominance at 27,000ft is meaningless in AH as it is exceedingly unlikely for it to find anything up there to fight before it runs out of fuel.

FYI, the La-7 is actually very good up past 10,000 and still quite usable at 20,000.  What fighters in AH do you actually use?

In addition, the MA is not a duel.  While I could have engaged the La-7 down low, I would have been swarmed by his friends as well and the Spitfire Mk XIV does not have the Tempest's speed that allows it to escape with ease.


Throughout this thread you have continually misrepresented the Spitfire Mk XIV's advantages to be much stronger than they are and downplayed the strengths of every other fighter.  You have lied about the way it is used as a method of explaining away the only hard data we have on its actual effectiveness in AH.

[MachFly]

Nope. Looks like "every other" to me.

If you can provide real factual evidence that support your claim, then I will stop harassing you.

Then your going to stop harassing me? LMAO Let's get this straight, in the end of the day I don't give a $h1t what you guys think or say. I think I'm the only pilot here who actually flies real airplanes so I recommend you actually pay attention to what I say.
Now I will explain why trim is useless, in the hopes that HTC will not fix.

When compression occurs some parts of the aircraft are moving supersonic. Because the airframe is not made for supersonic flight the air coming from behind your wings starts buffeting (see picture bellow). Elevators works well when the air passes smoothly other them, when it's buffeting they loose most of their effectiveness (this depends on the speed, airframe, and location of elevators). You can't pull out of a dive not because the pilot is not strong enough, but because the elevators are not doing anything. 


Blue is the airflow

It is possible that a trim tab might be able to help, however unlikely. Trim tab changes the shape of your elevator therefore changing the airflow. So if the trim tab is shaped correctly this might work. The odds of it working are extremely low, especially since it was not designed for that purpose. Also the airplane would need to actually have a trim tab, a lot of airplanes' trim works by moving the elevator.
In Aces High using trim to get out of a dive works on every airplane, this is not right.

[MachFly]

As you didn't get my point, I will be blunt about it.  I drug a La-7 to 22,000ft and turned on him.  He stuck around for a single turn before realizing how outclassed he was and dove away down to the altitudes at which he had the edge.  The Spitfire Mk XIV's dominance at 27,000ft is meaningless in AH as it is exceedingly unlikely for it to find anything up there to fight before it runs out of fuel.

FYI, the La-7 is actually very good up past 10,000 and still quite usable at 20,000.  What fighters in AH do you actually use?

In addition, the MA is not a duel.  While I could have engaged the La-7 down low, I would have been swarmed by his friends as well and the Spitfire Mk XIV does not have the Tempest's speed that allows it to escape with ease.


Throughout this thread you have continually misrepresented the Spitfire Mk XIV's advantages to be much stronger than they are and downplayed the strengths of every other fighter.  You have lied about the way it is used as a method of explaining away the only hard data we have on its actual effectiveness in AH.

By "high altitude" I did not mean 27K, I meant above 10K.

I use Spit 14, Spit 8, F4U-1A, and F4U-4.

How did I lie?