The Spitfire XIV Q

[Ruah]

The thread is lost and HTC will not have read this far.

BUT

The spit 14 would not break the game in MA at all if it were unperked.  The 16 pilots who will switch to it, much like the 190D pilots who switched to the TA152 for the same reasons - hay man, its faster, it has better guns, and its so cool looking!! - will yank the stick in a vert stall, throw the rudder at all in a high G low e yo yo and it will spin like a top (sound familiar?) and die.  They will die over and over again until they realize, like the dora pilots, that the 16 is still better (which it is).  The only thing the Spit 14 will be fantastic at will be BnZ (but there are a host of other planes that can do that), and chasing down P51Ds (again, the dora can do that, but it would be nice to get something else that can too).

All in all, the 14 is actually not that great a plane for the kind of combat we do here in AH2 - it will be able to break some nice high/low situations - but the 109s and KI-84 and even the C205 can do that great already and it will run like a little girl and no one will catch it - but it will suffer from the fuel hungry nature of the spit 16. . . ultimately the spit 8/9 will remain the definitive spit because it has the lazor sighted Hispzookas and some 303s for those seemingly consistent pilot wounds (but that is because in both the 190 and 109 I seem to get a lot of 303 pilot wounds).

There is really no reason to perk it, it will see some action against bombers like the TA152, but it will not break the game below 15k where 90% of the battles take place.

The caveat argument that 'in the right hands its unstoppable' holds true for any plane.  After the middle planes (109G2, Spit 8/9 etc) the performance is almost negligible and in fact, the slow speed stability of the plane, especially in the stall and in the roll become much more important then if it does a top speed 5 o 10 miles faster.

Ruah

[prono]

The thread is lost and HTC will not have read this far.

Lets keep it up then 

BUT

The spit 14 would not break the game in MA at all if it were unperked.

 

BUT

I think it can be overused for only high buffs scramble. Rocket climb, high alt speed, great punch and no perk cost.

[Karnak]

The Bf109K-4 is much superior for intercepting a high altitude buff.  The Spitfire Mk XIV's climb is nothing spectacular without WEP and the WEP would burn out before reaching high alt whereas the the Bf109K-4's WEB would still have three or four minutes left after reaching the bomber's alt.

[Tank-Ace]

I've heard that comparison to the K4 before, that they are nemesis to each other, but you'd never know it in the skies of AH.

IDK, of all the spits in the skys, I loved to see spit 14's. They're not as manuverable for some reason, particularly in roll rate.


And while they have good sustained climb, I found that I could usually out zoom them.

[Babalonian]

The thread is lost and HTC will not have read this far.

BUT

The spit 14 would not break the game in MA at all if it were unperked.  The 16 pilots who will switch to it, much like the 190D pilots who switched to the TA152 for the same reasons - hay man, its faster, it has better guns, and its so cool looking!! - will yank the stick in a vert stall, throw the rudder at all in a high G low e yo yo and it will spin like a top (sound familiar?) and die.  They will die over and over again until they realize, like the dora pilots, that the 16 is still better (which it is).  The only thing the Spit 14 will be fantastic at will be BnZ (but there are a host of other planes that can do that), and chasing down P51Ds (again, the dora can do that, but it would be nice to get something else that can too).

All in all, the 14 is actually not that great a plane for the kind of combat we do here in AH2 - it will be able to break some nice high/low situations - but the 109s and KI-84 and even the C205 can do that great already and it will run like a little girl and no one will catch it - but it will suffer from the fuel hungry nature of the spit 16. . . ultimately the spit 8/9 will remain the definitive spit because it has the lazor sighted Hispzookas and some 303s for those seemingly consistent pilot wounds (but that is because in both the 190 and 109 I seem to get a lot of 303 pilot wounds).

There is really no reason to perk it, it will see some action against bombers like the TA152, but it will not break the game below 15k where 90% of the battles take place.

The caveat argument that 'in the right hands its unstoppable' holds true for any plane.  After the middle planes (109G2, Spit 8/9 etc) the performance is almost negligible and in fact, the slow speed stability of the plane, especially in the stall and in the roll become much more important then if it does a top speed 5 o 10 miles faster.

Ruah

This is the closest to my train of thought on this matter.  I can't help of thinking of our D-9 and 152 in comparison to the Spit XVI and XIV situation, the XIV's lack of equal... 'agility' in many maneuvers is a penalty that you take for trading-up for other exceptional qualities of the aircraft.

Then I've also aproached it from looking at the whole lot of LWMA aircraft, and by itself the Spit XIV doesn't seem deserving of such a punative perk cost, or at least one not so harsh... but then that would be the second time its cost has been reduced in the LWMA... maybe it is time to eradicate it or near-eradicate the cost (1-2 perkies).

[Condor11]

+1 unperk it 

[Ruah]

come on!

try it for 2 tours and see what happens.

And I want to shoot at it with the K4 

[Tank-Ace]

I don't know about entirely unperking it. I imagine it would be about like the M4, or the M18 if they were free, or possibly even the Firefly with a lower perk cost (most of you remember the hordes of them before they were remodeled).

They would be very numerous, perhaps even unbalancing, as only the 190D, the 109K, and a few other fighters would have any clear speed advantage on the deck. They would possibly replace the P-51 as the stereotypical 'runner' aircraft.

But a perk price of somewhere around 2-4 would keep them from being suicide BnZ'ers, or near-capped field defenders (their stellar rate of climb and acceleration would be a great asset to them in that role). But it wouldn't be so high as to deter people from using them as bomber hunters (spits are pretty frail aircraft, and the Spit 14 is one of, if not THE, worst out of the bunch).

[Karnak]

Tank-Ace,

Why do you think it would be numerous?  It is hard to use compared to the Spit VIII or Spit XVI and it can't carry bombs.

I really wouldn't expect it to put up great numbers.

[Tank-Ace]

I think it would be numerous because of several reasons:

1) it would have the best climb-rate of any prop-driven fighter in the game (not sure on acceleration)

2) its faster than the other spitfires, and simply pretty fast, so it would be attractive to many spitdweebs, seeing as spitfires usually can't dictate the fight.

3) If it were free, there would be no cost in learning it. I've flown both the Ta-152, and the Spit 14, and I can say that the spit 14, while showing simmilar characteristics to the 152, its easier to recover from stalls, and it retains at least some of the spitfire's turning ability.

4) It would be, as I stated earlier, an ideal last-ditch defense/suicide BnZ or slasher aircraft, due to its stellar rate of climb and acceleration(?).

[Karnak]

1) it would have the best climb-rate of any prop-driven fighter in the game (not sure on acceleration)

Last I saw the Bf109K-4 and Spitfire Mk XVI were neck and neck with it at low altitudes where the fighting in AH.

2) its faster than the other spitfires, and simply pretty fast, so it would be attractive to many spitdweebs, seeing as spitfires usually can't dictate the fight.

This would likely be true if it weren't for the fact that it gives up almost everything people typically choose a Spitfire for.

3) If it were free, there would be no cost in learning it. I've flown both the Ta-152, and the Spit 14, and I can say that the spit 14, while showing simmilar characteristics to the 152, its easier to recover from stalls, and it retains at least some of the spitfire's turning ability.

Funny that you should mention the Ta152, it also used to be perked.  How it ranks compared to the Ta152 is irrelevant.  All that matters is if it would be imbalancing.

4) It would be, as I stated earlier, an ideal last-ditch defense/suicide BnZ or slasher aircraft, due to its stellar rate of climb and acceleration(?).

It would probably get used as such at times, but so what.  Its low speed handling is horrible.  The people taking it for that reason would be far, far better off in a Spitfire Mk XVI or Spitfire Mk VIII.  Or heck, and A6M5b.

[Tank-Ace]

Last I saw the Bf109K-4 and Spitfire Mk XVI were neck and neck with it at low altitudes where the fighting in AH.

Spit 14 holds slight lead

This would likely be true if it weren't for the fact that it gives up almost everything people typically choose a Spitfire for.

You mean the manuverability and EZ mode handling (only two things it gives up)? I'm sure many will gladly trade off some manuverability and handling for better speed, climb, and acceleration. Even if doesn't completly replace the other spitfires, I'm willing to bet it will replace a good number of them a good bit of the time.

Funny that you should mention the Ta152, it also used to be perked.  How it ranks compared to the Ta152 is irrelevant.  All that matters is if it would be imbalancing.

As I said, it displays less of the negative characteristics shared with the Ta-152, and more positive ones. Perhaps you're right, but a big reason people shy away from the 152 is that it is an absolute beast to recover from a flat spin, which isn't uncommon. If you can honestly say that a Ta-152 with 109K manuverabity wouldn't be worthy of perking, then I'll admit you have a point with this one.

It would probably get used as such at times, but so what.  Its low speed handling is horrible.  The people taking it for that reason would be far, far better off in a Spitfire Mk XVI or Spitfire Mk VIII.  Or heck, and A6M5b.

People taking it to turn-fight would be better off with a different spit, an early model 109, an A6M, or many other planes, yes. But thats not what nessicarily makes a good defense fighter. They can't dictate the fight, they can't build energy fast enough to compete with the would-be vulchers, they just don't have the legs to make a top-notch defender.

[Guppy35]

I think it would be numerous because of several reasons:

1) it would have the best climb-rate of any prop-driven fighter in the game (not sure on acceleration)

2) its faster than the other spitfires, and simply pretty fast, so it would be attractive to many spitdweebs, seeing as spitfires usually can't dictate the fight.

3) If it were free, there would be no cost in learning it. I've flown both the Ta-152, and the Spit 14, and I can say that the spit 14, while showing simmilar characteristics to the 152, its easier to recover from stalls, and it retains at least some of the spitfire's turning ability.

4) It would be, as I stated earlier, an ideal last-ditch defense/suicide BnZ or slasher aircraft, due to its stellar rate of climb and acceleration(?).

As near as I can tell, the majority of AH players have no interest in taking the time to learn a bird like the XIV.  They'd expect it to be a Merlin bird, get confused as to why it's not as simple and give up and go back to the XVI.

What you'd end up with is a group of guys dedicated to the XIV that would be monsters in it, but never in numbers to unbalance the arenas.

[Karnak]

The energy generation of the Spitfire Mk XIV is negligibly better than the Spitfire Mk XVI at low altitude.  The low speed handling of the Spitfire Mk XVI is significantly better than the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Also, we may be talking of different things here.  I am thinking in terms of a base that has had its defenses pushed back to the point where a vulchfest is likely in the near future and defending fighters are fighting from a distinct E and altitude disadvantage.

[Guppy35]

The energy generation of the Spitfire Mk XIV is negligibly better than the Spitfire Mk XVI at low altitude.  The low speed handling of the Spitfire Mk XVI is significantly better than the Spitfire Mk XIV.

Also, we may be talking of different things here.  I am thinking in terms of a base that has had its defenses pushed back to the point where a vulchfest is likely in the near future and defending fighters are fighting from a distinct E and altitude disadvantage.

You'd want your XIVs coming from the nearest base and being over the top of the 'vulch' while your XVI's would be the ones upping into the mob from below