Theory of Relativity - Wrong?

[Flipperk]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/09/110923-neutrinos-speed-of-light-particles-cern-physics-einstein-science/

^ In short, Scientists MAY have found particles, more specifically neutrinos, that can travel faster than the speed of light. What does this mean? This means that the Theory of Relativity is wrong...I understand that the theory is not all about the speed of light, but all of the assumptions and equations with the theory all have the limit of the speed of light involved...therefore it is all no longer accurate.

I never really believed that the speed of light is an absolute, to assume an absolute when we are talking about the cosmos is absolutely absurd!

Einstein, and now even Stephen Hawking, both believe(d) that time travel has to do with the speed of light. The closer you approach the speed of light time slows down, and that once you reach the speed of light you are literally frozen in time (respectively to us). If you try to go any faster, time will have to go backwards in order for you not to break this barrier...

....This process of slowing down time (or stretching it) has been proven, with commercial jet liners and even astronauts on the ISS, the faster you travel the slower you age...


...But this is ALL assumed to be related to the absolute limit of the speed of light...if this barrier is broken and is no longer the absolute...then what is exactly governing this process of slowing down time? Maybe time travel is not possible after all, maybe we just go faster and faster, just continuously stretching time to infinity...

Such as the mathematical problem of continuously dividing by 2...you half the size each time, but mathematically you will never reach zero... maybe time follows the same principle..you will never go backwards

[Melvin]

Wow, this is so last week.

And there was an error found in CERN's math.

Relativity is safe... for now.

[Flipperk]

Wow, this is so last week.

And there was an error found in CERN's math.

Relativity is safe... for now.

Because I believe if you look at the properties of a neutrino, neutrinos have the capability to go through mass and not be effected once they pass through. Now why is that statement important? Because we can assume that neutrinos are not effected by mass, if they are not effected by mass then gravity does not effect them either. Light is effected by gravity and the effect of gravity curves a lights' path slightly enough to effect the time it takes to reach point A to point B. Neutrinos do not have that problem, and therefor theoretically have the potential to go faster than light.




EDIT: Thanks Melvin...I still stand by my statements and theories  .

EDIT 2: Just read the article...it still does not "Prove" it to be false...it was an observational counter claim...this will only be proven false once many more tests are ran.

[Melvin]

Here you are Sir.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27260/

I was just looking for it as you posted, sorry for the delay.

[PuppetZ]

Also might want to look at

http://johncostella.webs.com/neutrino-blunder.pdf

[Melvin]

This is the most glaring line from the paper that Puppetz posted.

"—if its estimates for systematic errors withstand scrutiny, and if it is
subsequently confirmed in future experiments—"


We need to see them reproduce this experiment with the same results. My money says they can't do it.

[ImADot]

Light is effected by gravity and the effect of gravity curves a lights' path slightly enough to effect the time it takes to reach point A to point B. Neutrinos do not have that problem, and therefor theoretically have the potential to go faster than light.

But what about the fact that the bend in the light's path makes it travel farther to get from A to B...the neutrino gets to go straight from A to B. The shortest distance is a straight line.  They can both be travelling at the same speed, but since the neutrino cheats and goes straight, it gets there "first" but not necessarily goes "faster".

[Flipperk]

But what about the fact that the bend in the light's path makes it travel farther to get from A to B...the neutrino gets to go straight from A to B. The shortest distance is a straight line.  They can both be travelling at the same speed, but since the neutrino cheats and goes straight, it gets there "first" but not necessarily goes "faster".

That is true, but that same response also proves that we did not calculate the true speed of light then, we are calculating the speed of light with bends...

But the fact a neutrino is not effected by gravity, it has the capability to travel faster...no resistance what so ever...nothing is going to slow it down...except time.

[mensa180]

....

Such as the mathematical problem of continuously dividing by 2...you half the size each time, but mathematically you will never reach zero... maybe time follows the same principle..you will never go backwards

I was under the impression this is what current science states.  Nothing with mass ever reaches the speed of light, and things that do travel the speed of light burst into existence already at c.  I think an interesting consequence of this is when people say light 'bounced' off something what they're really saying is light was absorbed by that and then photons were immediately emitted.  Actual 'bouncing' would imply the photon experiences a change in acceleration.  Nothing accelerates to exactly c.

The examples you cited aren't actually time travel, just nice 'time travel-y' consequences of time dilation.

[morfiend]

Hmm I though the C in MCsquared was a constant, did someone find out the speed of light isnt constant???



   

[Yeager]

Have you never heard of spice filled guild navigators?  One just has to think.

[PFactorDave]

Have you never heard of spice filled guild navigators?  One just has to think.

Now there's a slightly obscure book/movie reference.  Well done.

[PuppetZ]

I'm probably gonna get called for that but, but where exactly is it said that neutrino are not affected by gravity. Neutrino does not intereact with matter, but they still travel through space-time. Now according to general relativity, gravity is a consequence of the deformation of space time by matter. Neutrino move within space time. They will follow whatever geodesic (shortest path on a curved surface) is imposed by matter to the medium(space-time). The fact they do not interact with said matter have nothing to do with the path they will follow through space-time according to my understanding of the subject at least. So in light of that, a neutrino beam will follow the same path as a photon beam.

Thoughts?

[PuppetZ]

Hmm I though the C in MCsquared was a constant, did someone find out the speed of light isnt constant???



   

Still is for now at least. Future will tell us who has the most powerful lobby 

[BoilerDown]

The straight line mentioned a few paths above is actually a longer path thanks to curved space, which is curved thanks to gravity.

Nothing with a rest mass greater than zero can reach the speed of light.

Gravity absolutely affects light (edit: and neutrinos, I just re-read PuppetZ's post and he explains it well).  Otherwise people wouldn't talk about black holes and astronomers wouldn't be able to use gravitational lensing to see further than they otherwise could.

Edit 2:

Such as the mathematical problem of continuously dividing by 2...you half the size each time, but mathematically you will never reach zero...

This is solved in a 2nd semester calculus course dealing with limits.