Author Topic: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.  (Read 1127 times)

Offline bangsbox

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2011, 12:56:28 AM »
WELL...cv groups always brought more firepower to shore then shore ever had. what ever has shot back at a battleship and won from land. we need battleships!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats all i heard so far. and be thankful that we only have baby cv groups. have seen ww2 footage of planes attacking cvs OMG the ack is alot worse (as far as # of guns).

Offline Guppy35

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 01:15:03 AM »
WELL...cv groups always brought more firepower to shore then shore ever had. what ever has shot back at a battleship and won from land. we need battleships!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats all i heard so far. and be thankful that we only have baby cv groups. have seen ww2 footage of planes attacking cvs OMG the ack is alot worse (as far as # of guns).

Be careful what you wish for.  Just one example.  The USS Colorado was one of those BBs used for shore bombardment.  She got into a dual with hidden gun batteries on Tinian.  They took a lot of hits and a number of casualties.  You have to remember that the BBs were essentially used as stationary floating gun platforms.

Tennessee and California also took hits and casualties from hidden shore batteries while supporting the invasions.  If HTC were to try and take it further, making the shore batteries harder to see and more of them would make sense too.
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Offline bangsbox

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 01:47:10 AM »
"took hits" is not winning the dual. cv groups are insanely formatable opponents; planes, lots of 16' guns, even more 5in, and more 20mm and 40mm then there are players in this game (sarcasm but could be true) not to mention Lvts. CV groups i think are to weak. it takes many 8in hits to kill a SB. I'm all for making more SB but we should have a BB and a CA.
 the only way CVs were sunk by aircraft were organized raids not solo raids so more ack would rectify this. I also think that cvs can be weaker but thats the context of adding a BB and a CA/more ack  into a CV group.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 01:55:05 AM »
"took hits" is not winning the dual. cv groups are insanely formatable opponents; planes, lots of 16' guns, even more 5in, and more 20mm and 40mm then there are players in this game (sarcasm but could be true) not to mention Lvts. CV groups i think are to weak. it takes many 8in hits to kill a SB. I'm all for making more SB but we should have a BB and a CA.
 the only way CVs were sunk by aircraft were organized raids not solo raids so more ack would rectify this. I also think that cvs can be weaker but thats the context of adding a BB and a CA/more ack  into a CV group.

But they didn't drive Essex class carriers close in shore, nor did they bring in the fast Battleships to bombard the shore.  And shore bombardment was prior to an intended amphibious landing, not an attack on an airfield.
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Offline bangsbox

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 03:00:54 AM »
But they didn't drive Essex class carriers close in shore, nor did they bring in the fast Battleships to bombard the shore.  And shore bombardment was prior to an intended amphibious landing, not an attack on an airfield.
i think your only thinking in terms of US carrier groups. yes our cv group is American in design but it launches jap and brit planes. should not your thinking on the issue be more dynamic?

Offline Crash Orange

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2011, 04:19:41 AM »
But they didn't drive Essex class carriers close in shore, nor did they bring in the fast Battleships to bombard the shore.  And shore bombardment was prior to an intended amphibious landing, not an attack on an airfield.

Carriers, you're right, the rest, not necessarily. The Japanese used Kongo-class fast battleships to bombard Guadalcanal with the express purpose of shutting down Henderson Field. They did stay well offshore, 10 miles or more.

Anyway, the real problem isn't bombardment, it's the use of CV ack to suppress a field. I agree with Waystin2 and the others who've said the solution is just to make the CV group stay further out and adjust LVT spawn range as necessary.

It might be fun to have bombardment groups with just cruisers and CVs. I think battleships are a bit out of the scope of the game, although they could be fun if properly implemented. What I'd like to see much more would be destroyers that could break off from the task group and make torpedo attacks. THAT would rock.  :rock Smokescreens would be cool too.

As for the ship gun sighting and aiming systems, the RL ones were actually more capable. The biggest lack in the AH system is not having rangefinders or fire control computers (although our sights do contain a limited computer function in sea mode, it's not as capable as the RL ones). The thing that makes ship gunnery easier in AH is the lack of weather or any other obscurement of the target (like the above mentioned smoke) - that, and we bring task groups much closer to each other and their targets than was generally the case for battleships, cruisers, or (rarely) carriers in daylight surface battles. Our "optics" are a little better, but the naval gunnery optics of all the major navies were of extremely high quality.

They generally didn't ever bring warships to a complete stop during combat, but for gunfire support they did slow way below the flank speed our TGs always move at.

I'm not aware of any battleships that were driven off by shore-based batteries, but I'm also not aware of any battleships that got within range of functioning shore-based batteries of battleship caliber. And of course our ships aren't battleships. There were a number of instances of cruisers and destroyers being sunk, mauled, and/or sent packing by shore defenses, including the German naval assault on Oslo (although it was captured shortly afterward by troops who were airlifted in)  the first Japanese attempt to take Wake Island. Shore batteries worked, that's why they invested so much in them. Where they didn't work it was usually where the attackers, particularly the Allies in the late war, brought in hundreds of ships and simply overwhelmed the defenses by sheer weight of numbers. Maybe if we beefed up AH shore defenses we'd get to see multiple TGs coordinating to take a target more often.

(As I side note on the effectiveness of shore-based batteries, and because I love any excuse for talking about my ancestors, the only reason Richmond remained Confederate in 1862 was because the heavy naval shore batteries just down the river at Fort Darling on Drewry's Bluff, with support by field artillery and the infantry of my great-great-grandfather's regiment (the 26th Virginia), managed to drive off a Union attempt to force the river defenses, including the ironclads Monitor, Galena, and Naugatuck and a couple of wooden ships. Galena was just about pounded to scrap metal by the fort's 8" and 10" Columbiads, the federal ships were forced to withdraw, and Union Gen. MacClellan took an eastern land route toward Richmond and what would become Lee's first great victory, the Seven Days Battles.)

Offline Vinkman

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2011, 07:48:48 AM »
Why not upgrade the SB?  15" or greater may do the trick.  It may be easier to redo a SB to accommodate the 15+" gun and place it in the same spot as the current 8" gun.  Or, you could add more 8" guns on the maps.  Either way, there will be work to do.  Personally, I think having the 8" guns upgraded to a 15" gun or larger would be reasonable.

40.6 cm SK C/34 or the 38 cm SK C/34 may do the trick.  And yes I know, it's wiki....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_cm_SK_C/34_naval_



Oh and one more thing; Add AAA to the SB's.  Some auto and/or manned guns on and around the SB would be helpful.

Step in the right direction.  :aok thanks for the idea
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2011, 07:55:47 AM »

Lots of good info. Thanks for the post.  :aok
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Offline Butcher

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2011, 08:05:42 AM »
CV fights would be more fun if it wasn't for the puffy ack blowing you apart at 3.1k while the enemy climb above 10k without disturbance.
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Offline SEseph

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2011, 08:31:43 AM »
[.....]

I agree with the others on the great information here. Basically, having the simple threat of the guns and the willingness to use them if pushed was a key factor in not wanting to get closer because it becomes a danger unless, like you said, the numbers are so over whelming they couldn't hope to stop them.

Yes, we need more guns... I mean we have many bases on many maps that are very vulnerable to coastal attack and they don't even have one. Others, they all point the wrong way...

That you know that many intimate about your family is also awesome.

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2011, 11:03:56 AM »
BB-35 is still afloat. Oldest Battleship to be still afloat.

She had many firsts in her career.
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Offline Slate

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2011, 08:04:02 AM »
  I'd like to see more shore batts to cover all angles to the sea. CV groups were most vulnerable to Aircraft though thats why I up Lancs from another base and most times Boom CV dead with ord left over for Crusier. But watch for a good 5" gunner.  :furious
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Offline LTARifle

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2011, 08:57:36 AM »
What would happen if an Iowa class BB was added to the task groups.
The number of mannable 5" double. As would the number of escort destroyers.
Not to mention the addition of 16" naval rifles.
Wanna be realistic about it cv's are under gunned if anything.
No lancaster B17 B24 ever sank an Essex class cv in the war .
When 5" radio proximity shells were added the hit rate of these shells almost tripled.
And during the war all guns were manned not auto fired.
As far as zoom on 5" guns, good luck hitting anything zoomed in.
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Offline lunatic1

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2011, 11:53:28 AM »
Why not upgrade the SB?  15" or greater may do the trick.  It may be easier to redo a SB to accommodate the 15+" gun and place it in the same spot as the current 8" gun.  Or, you could add more 8" guns on the maps.  Either way, there will be work to do.  Personally, I think having the 8" guns upgraded to a 15" gun or larger would be reasonable.

40.6 cm SK C/34 or the 38 cm SK C/34 may do the trick.  And yes I know, it's wiki....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_cm_SK_C/34_naval_



Oh and one more thing; Add AAA to the SB's.  Some auto and/or manned guns on and around the SB would be helpful.
i agree sb's need to be upgraded badly--either more sb's or faster fireing-guns--and isn't most sb's dual barrels anyway.adding nother barrel to a shore battery would help a little
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Offline Chilli

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Re: CVs groups need tweaking. My ideas.
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2011, 01:05:40 PM »
Add more than one Task Group to a port.  One traditional carrier force and another destroyer force that could operate separately from the Main Carrier force.  Basically, allowing for the destroyer group to set up pickets and blockades.

And again  :aok :aok push the fleets further from shore with much better landing craft spawns.