A6M3

[HighTone]

I've logged plenty of sorties in the Zeke 3 since its introduction, (Thanks HTC!!) and I have to agree with Krusty in one area, it doesn't feel like it has the same horsepower or thrust that the 5b does. For me its in the acceleration department that it shows. While the climb rate may be slightly better at a few different alts and it does have better roll rate, the slow speed handling and upper end acceleration are still just a bit worse than the 5b. Which is where I think it should be. I think HTC did a great job with the Zeke 3, I thank them for it.


Ki-43?

[Oddball-CAF]

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/hamp-eb201.html

PERFORMANCE FLIGHT TEST OF A JAPANESE HAMP  (A6M3)

[Krusty]

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/hamp-eb201.html

PERFORMANCE FLIGHT TEST OF A JAPANESE HAMP  (A6M3)

CORRECTION:

"Performanace test of a crashed, captured, rebuilt, A6M3 Hamp flown using US fuel"

It even states:

"No horsepower data is given because no correlation could be obtained between variouos sources of data on engine power output for given conditions of engine RPM and manifold pressure"

You can't take that with any credibility, especially considering how almost every US test of a captured japanese plane yielded performance 10% higher than the Japanese could attain (often due to fuel used for the test!).

Look at Japanese numbers. Look at Japanese pilot comparisons. You can't use US numbers for Japanese planes, or else our Ki-84 would be some 30-40mph faster.

[USBP1969]

Two pages  - I expected maybe 2 or 3 comments.  Great!

The last time all I got was that the A6M3 did roll faster which was not an accurate statement.  Maybe some good will come from this discussion. (Sure miss the old skins though.)
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gyrene:

o you have been playing flying games on the internet for 12 years and you somehow associate that with flight experience or something?

Not a lot.  Got my Private Single Engine Land rating on 5/5/65.  Just Cessna 172's and 182's.

and when you step off that rather high horse you rode in on

No "High Horse" for me, too far to fall from a high horse.  Also, please note that my response to you was in no way a "personal" attack.  Yours, however, was.  
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krusty:  Gee, didn't seem confusing to me.  The A6M3 in WarBirds has a much higher roll rate than the A6M2 or the A6M5.  In Aces High it doesn't.  Also, I was trying to make an analogy between the A6M3 and the other AH Zekes by comparing the Spit-14 and the Spit-16 (clipped wing) so that reader of the post had some point of reference.
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Hightone: Amen brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Ki-43.  I miss it and the Yak-3 from the lineup, but the Ki-43 most.

Respectfully,
USBP1969

[USBP1969]

As promised: I did a quick search for “A6M3 Roll Rate” and came up with the site: http://www.jplanes.com/zero%20page.html

Couple of very interesting quotes in re: the A6M3:

“The only other major changes were to the wings, which were simplified by removing the Model 21's folding tips. This changed the appearance enough to prompt the US to designate it with a new code name Hamp, before realizing it was simply a new model of the Zeke. The wings also included larger ammunition boxes, allowing for 100 rounds for each of the 20 mm cannon. The wing changes had much greater effects on performance than expected. The smaller size led to better roll, and their lower drag allowed the diving speed to be increased to 360 knots (670 km/h). On the downside, maneuverability was reduced, and range suffered due to both decreased lift and the smaller fuel tank. Pilots complained about both.

Also:

“The A6M5 was a modest update of the A6M3 Model 22, with non-folding wing tips and thicker skinning to permit faster diving speeds, plus an improved exhaust system (four pipes on each side) that provided an increment of thrust. Improved roll-rate of clipped-wing A6M3 was now built-in."

Interesting that the A6M3’s improved roll rate was “Built into” the A6M5.

The search continues as time permits……..

Also, thanks for the links.

Respectfully,
USBP1969

[USBP1969]

Took another break from caregiving.  Here’s something interesting from the AH forum that came up on a Google search.  (Bold = mine)

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=311923.25;wap2

Hello, this is busa01.

About the roll rate of A6M3

In Japan, there is no data of the roll rate of A6M.
Then, I submit a pilot's testimony and quotation of reportｓ.
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According to the handling manual of Zero Mk2 mod.3
When high-speed, the stick force of Mk2 fighter is very light.
(When it compares with Mk1 figter) .
It is necessary to move the control stick of Mk1 fighter with both
hands in the case of ACM.
And we have to move it with all one's force.
However, the stick force of Mk2 fighter is very light, and easy handling.

* Mk2 fighter is Model 32, Mk1 fighter is Model 21 early model not had
aileron balancing tab.
* Later model of A6M2b　Model 21(Nakajima Avi mass-produced) had
aileron balancing tab.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Mk2 fighter also has report that the roll is light and it is very
advantageous in ACM.
(When it compares with Mk1 figter) .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WO Ohara Ryouji of the test pilot of Yokosuka NFG has said like this.
The roll performance of model 32 is better than model 52.
Because, the area of aileron of model 52 is smaller than model 32.
Therefore, model 52 has small aileron effect.
The model 32 had most excellent maneuverability.

Interesting indeed.

Respectfully,
USBP1969

[Krusty]

Point of order: In Aces High it DOES have a faster roll rate! It's noticably better. I'll have to do some testing when I get home but if you search the forums you may find folks already have discussed it.

[USBP1969]

Krusty - All I can go is by the stop watch times I posted originally.  Maybe at a different altitude or speed I'd be able to tell some difference. This was 225 MPH at 200 feet SEL. (Seven second for a full roll.)

The difference I have experienced before wasvery noticeable.  It was very much like the B-239 Brewster is now in AH.

USBP1969

[Oddball-CAF]

CORRECTION:

"Performanace test of a crashed, captured, rebuilt, A6M3 Hamp flown using US fuel"

The subject line was off the official document. You call it what you want.

[MK-84]

Our Am63 does have a much better roll rate.  Maybe not as pronounced as Warbirds, but it it very noticeable.

[FLS]

As promised: I did a quick search for “A6M3 Roll Rate” and came up with the site: http://www.jplanes.com/zero%20page.html

Couple of very interesting quotes in re: the A6M3:
Also:
Interesting that the A6M3’s improved roll rate was “Built into” the A6M5.

The search continues as time permits……..

Also, thanks for the links.

Respectfully,
USBP1969

So the M3 and M5 should have the same roll rate?

[Krusty]

That page is a 100% plagarism of the wikipedia entry. I wouldn't trust wikipedia on an off-hand comment like that. I think it means they designed a shorter wing to improve the roll rate on the 5b, but not that it was identical. The 5b does have shorter wings, thus less force to overcome when rolling the plane.


EDIT: not 100%, but it looks like they stole and older version and the wiki has been updated since, there are tons of pages that do this now and it's very annoying. They just spam the internet with bad info most times.

[FLS]

Wasn't the improved roll rate more from the larger ailerons than the shorter wing?

[Krusty]

Since the aileron wasn't changed, just the folding wingtip was left off and faired over, I would think "No."

The 5b had the shorter spawn but also rounded tips, so it's got different aileron size (smaller, slightly).

[USBP1969]

So far, it looks like Busa01 has presented the best info with pilot quotes from WW-II in regards to the A6M3's performance.

Respectfully,
USBP1969