Barrage ballons

[MachFly]

I used google got 10 pages of 10 to a page, here is 3.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWbarrage.htm

http://www.worldwar-two.net/armamento/90/

http://www.skylighters.org/barrageballoons/

I got 100s of pages when looking for it as well. I did not find anything that said German fighters (manned aircraft, not V1s) were crashing because of collision with the cable that connected the balloon to the ground. The links you posted do not talk about it either.

I can speculate why Germans did not want to fight around the balloons. When maneuvering you don't want to accidentally hit one of the balloons, not the cables. Hitting a balloon would not necessarily bring down the plane either, it would depend on the structural integrate of the balloon, which part of the aircraft hit the balloon, the speed of impact, and the altitude bellow that can be used to recover. 

[Traveler]

I got 100s of pages when looking for it as well. I did not find anything that said German fighters (manned aircraft, not V1s) were crashing because of collision with the cable that connected the balloon to the ground. The links you posted do not talk about it either.

I can speculate why Germans did not want to fight around the balloons. When maneuvering you don't want to accidentally hit one of the balloons, not the cables. Hitting a balloon would not necessarily bring down the plane either, it would depend on the structural integrate of the balloon, which part of the aircraft hit the balloon, the speed of impact, and the altitude bellow that can be used to recover.  

The Dover incident deserves elaboration because it provided, in the words of Air Marshal Gossage, a clear indication of their [the Germans'] respect for the British balloon barrage. In an attempt to clear the balloons from Dover, the Germans launched a major effort in late August 1940. They destroyed 40 balloons but lost six aircraft in the process. Much to the Germans' chagrin, 34 new balloons appeared the very next day. Air Marshal Gossage commented on the action: The protective balloons still fly over Dover. The attack on the barrage has proved too costly. ... In general, major attacks on balloon barrages have ceased, the enemy having realized that the game is not worth the candle. The fact, however, that he hoped to destroy our balloons is in itself proof of the utility of the barrage. During the height of the Blitz, 102 aircraft struck cables, resulting in 66 crashed or forced landings.

out of this link, http://www.worldwar-two.net/armamento/90/

You have to take the time to read all the information.

[MachFly]

The Dover incident deserves elaboration because it provided, in the words of Air Marshal Gossage, a clear indication of their [the Germans'] respect for the British balloon barrage. In an attempt to clear the balloons from Dover, the Germans launched a major effort in late August 1940. They destroyed 40 balloons but lost six aircraft in the process. Much to the Germans' chagrin, 34 new balloons appeared the very next day. Air Marshal Gossage commented on the action: The protective balloons still fly over Dover. The attack on the barrage has proved too costly. ... In general, major attacks on balloon barrages have ceased, the enemy having realized that the game is not worth the candle. The fact, however, that he hoped to destroy our balloons is in itself proof of the utility of the barrage. During the height of the Blitz, 102 aircraft struck cables, resulting in 66 crashed or forced landings.

out of this link, http://www.worldwar-two.net/armamento/90/

You have to take the time to read all the information.

That article literally says "...but lost six aircraft in the process", it does not explain how they were lost, it's quite possible they were shot down by allied aircraft or AAA.

[Traveler]

That article literally says "...but lost six aircraft in the process", it does not explain how they were lost, it's quite possible they were shot down by allied aircraft or AAA.

It says "During the height of the Blitz, 102 aircraft struck cables, resulting in 66 crashed or forced landings."

102 hit the cables, 66 crashed.  That's what it says.  Are we not reading the same thing?

[MachFly]

It says "During the height of the Blitz, 102 aircraft struck cables, resulting in 66 crashed or forced landings."

102 hit the cables, 66 crashed.  That's what it says.  Are we not reading the same thing?

Your right, I missed that part.

So 65% of the aircraft that hit the cables either ditched or crashed. I guess that sounds realistic enough.


Now do you think we should have it in AH?
Given the size of the balloon barrages we will need to create and such a low crash/ditch rate I don't think it's going to make a significant change to the MA.

[Raptor05121]

It would not necessarily bring down a plane. There were plenty of cases where the power lines were cut due to an aircraft. Granted those cables would probably stop the Storch that were getting but I don't see a high success rate for stopping the faster aircraft.

A faster force would cause more damage. Maybe not cause an insta-tower, but sure would shear off a wing or tail of the sort. If you have ever flown South Florida, you should be versed on the Aerostat balloon that is tethered to a 25,000 ft cable. That caution is plastered all over FBOs and maps down there about dangers. I sure know I would hate to clip that cable!

[Traveler]

Your right, I missed that part.

So 65% of the aircraft that hit the cables either ditched or crashed. I guess that sounds realistic enough.


Now do you think we should have it in AH?
Given the size of the balloon barrages we will need to create and such a low crash/ditch rate I don't think it's going to make a significant change to the MA.

I think it would depend on how it is implemented.   If it's player controlled I think it might be a bust, but if it was AI controlled, every Base and Town haveing a Barrage Ballon Company,  150 men to a company, 25% front office and support, leaving 112 men,  8 men to a ballon , each base could have 14 ballons deployed.  I think it might have an impact on NOE missions and airbord troop deployment.

They deployed 3, 5 and 10K ballons.

[guncrasher]

i think the point of the game is for players to defend the base.  we already have ack and soon 88mm.  no reason to add more stuff to defend a town that should be defended by players.


semp

[MachFly]

A faster force would cause more damage. Maybe not cause an insta-tower, but sure would shear off a wing or tail of the sort. If you have ever flown South Florida, you should be versed on the Aerostat balloon that is tethered to a 25,000 ft cable. That caution is plastered all over FBOs and maps down there about dangers. I sure know I would hate to clip that cable!

Actually I never flown in florida, as a matter of fact I never even been there. However I do know about the TFRs they set up when lunching those balloons.

I can not tell you the exact force required to break the cable or rip your wing off, especially because this would be very specific to the type of cable, speed, and type of aircraft. What I can tell you however I read plenty of times where a cessna size aircraft or a helicopter would hit the power lines and crash because of that, I also heard plenty of stories where pilots of aircraft such as F-4 and F-18 would hit power lines, not even notice that and find out only on the ground. Regarding WWII type aircraft it's quite possible that the aircraft would crash because of it and it's possible that the aircraft would fly away.

[MachFly]

I think it would depend on how it is implemented.   If it's player controlled I think it might be a bust, but if it was AI controlled, every Base and Town haveing a Barrage Ballon Company,  150 men to a company, 25% front office and support, leaving 112 men,  8 men to a ballon , each base could have 14 ballons deployed.  I think it might have an impact on NOE missions and airbord troop deployment.

They deployed 3, 5 and 10K ballons.

The lowering of the radar floor already brought an end to NOE missions, regarding troop deployments I think the fighters providing cap would destroy the balloons along with the ack.

[davidwales]

why dont someone else repost it under different heading like dpr for instance 

[Traveler]

The lowering of the radar floor already brought an end to NOE missions, regarding troop deployments I think the fighters providing cap would destroy the balloons along with the ack.

the NOE is alive and well, was in two last night. 

[Traveler]

i think the point of the game is for players to defend the base.  we already have ack and soon 88mm.  no reason to add more stuff to defend a town that should be defended by players.


semp

Players would still defend the base.   It's just a tool that players woudl have to use to defend, like a tank or plane. It would help protect against low flying aircraft. 

it would ad an historical element to the game that has been missing.  I can't think of  good reason why it should n't be here.

[4Prop]