CV Ack vs Fighters

[MK-84]

You have it completely backwards.  If AH modeled AA realistically, you'd rarely get near the CV.


ack-ack

This ^
And they Rarely did historically compared with the numbers who tried.

I have two frustrations with CV ack.  And this is from a gameplay perspective
    1.  With my graphics settings the ack will often start firing on me before the CV is in visual range.  It's just on the edge of visual really.
    2.  Puffy ack uses a randomizer which I understand (i.e. I know about speed,distance,maneuvering variables)  But essentially once you are in the zone, it is impossible that any amount of flying style, or "skill"  allows you to avoid it. This is not a complaint about lethality...it SHOULD be lethal.  It isnt alot of fun knowing that there is nothing i can do about it.  This is hard to describe but it a "lack of ability to control my surroundings"*

*I am aware that I can control whether i fly into the puffy "range bubble" (when it does not conflict with #1)  but I mean this for when I have purposely flown into it to say attack a target.

[MK-84]

more dispersion is the solution, because a flak or cannon fired from a ship has do deal with the rolling of ships. That means nothing more, add some more dispersion and all is fine

You're really just saying make it less lethal?

[Klam]

Can't really moan about getting squished by puffy ack.  Seen the old films of the fire put up by
carriers in the Pacific.  An immense wall of lead and shrapnel bursts.
If you're dumb enough to fly into it.......

Not nice when the boat is 1" offshore though and Puffy is over the field.  But hey!  It's a game.
Go Lanca-Stuka the bucket and laugh.

Maybe a few tweaks to it would help the poor suicidal souls who want to play in it.  
Could it be set so that it would nail you when heading towards the fleet
but cease when heading away.  Or have it set in layers, so leaving a bare 1k every 3.

It won't stop the whine whatever happens.

[Noir]

HT said in the last puff ack whine thread that he could coad something to enhance the ack....I have yet to see it in the patch notes

[Oddball-CAF]

While I find the CV ack an incredible nuisance, what most riles me is
how easily -bombers- can pass through the auto-puffy so easily which
makes the CV groups basically a joke (and a poor one at that) in
the arena. Simply put, they just don't last and contribute nothing
other than at most a trade-off. (One CV sunk to capture one field.)
 
IMHO, what needs to be done consists of two things to make the
game more enjoyable for all and to balance things out so that
the CVs have a chance at surviving.

First is perhaps to pull in the range at which the -auto- puffy ack can
hit anything in the air.

Second is to take away the seemingly magical damage resistance that
bombers have to the puffy ack.

In ALL of WW2, not a single, repeat, not a single, CV was ever sunk by
heavy bombers.

Doing both of these things would take away the gamey aspect of bombin'
CVs with magic buffs and perhaps engender some organized dive-bombing
and/or torpedo strikes against CVs which was historical fact.

Flame retardent skivvies on!

[Vasco]

Full Ack, Oddball.

Problem in AH's MA is nobody ever does  divebombing or torpedo runs on a CV because you will never survive it.
Either due to manned 5" killing your tiny little plane way out or the autoguns always killing you on the dive or on the run.

So everybody ups a set of Buffs and comes in at 9k ft, 250 mph and drops a full load and the CV is gone.
The only complicated part is the CV turning in the last moment.
Puffy ack never hits you - even over the CV.

Whereas in a fighter you easily take direct hits at the visual range of the CV.


Cheers,
Vasco

[MK-84]

A possible concept:

Puffy's effectiveness is increases for true bombers (the idea is that the path is predictable)
Puffy's effectiveness is decreaced for maneuvering targets, but increased when they are not.
Puffy's effectiveness towards speed of the aircraft remains similar
Puffy's effectiveness towards altitude/distance remains similar

Auto Ack, decreases effectiveness towards planes flying at extremely low altitudes to promote the torpedo as being an effective weapon which currently is so suicidal it it's curious as to why it was even added.

[wil3ur]

I think puffy itself is fine the way it is.  What needs to be fixed is sailing a CV to within 1K of the shoreline, and setting them up as a field cap for bases.  It's extremely frustrating to have an umbrella over your entire airfield of puffy ack.

Simplest fix is increase the distance carriers have to be from the shore, that way their puffy ack remains a defensive screen and not an offensive umbrella.  Only change would need to allow LVT's to spawn in from a farther distance out.

[leitwolf]

If you have bombs/rockets -> puffy ack volume of fire++;
If you dont have a bomb -> volume of fire--;

This could actually improve CV survivability if the system would tend to ignore fighters (without bombs) and spend more time spewing lead into incoming buff formations. Ofc this is somewhat gamey as CV gunners would rarely have the knowledge about inbound fighter loadouts, but going for "bombers first" seems to be a reasonable average threat assessment.

Maybe add a switch for scenarios and other special events to get the current behavior back (although it is worth mentioning that in  scenarios where correct levels of anti aircraft fire would be most appropriate, puffy ack lethality is commonly dialed way back to prevent the frustration of flying in formation for an hour and then getting killed by an Act Of The Cruel God Of Randomness and Entropy)

[titanic3]

Flying above 3K near a CV is like playing Russian roulette.

My idea: Give the 5" positions ability to direct puffy ack. Remove auto AI ack all together.

Ex: You jump into a 5" gun, you point the barrel at an enemy plane, and puffy ack starts shooting at the closest one. You press "Primary Weapon Fire" and the normal 5" guns start shooting.

What this means is that if you happen to fly across an enemy CV accidentally, you won't get insta killed in the middle of a sortie or on your return trip or whatever. It'll also promote better communication for the country with the CV because guys need to be on the constant look out.

[Butcher]

You have it completely backwards.  If AH modeled AA realistically, you'd rarely get near the CV.


ack-ack

I was going to post some numbers, but my stupid Chrome crashed and I lost it - however I was going to show the AAA armament for the Battle of Midway (USS Yorktown) compared to the USS Franklin in late 44, if we had a Late war compliment of AAA then you wouldn't be getting near a CV period.

For example we don't have CLAA's which were designed as AAA platforms, Battleships such as IOWA's were a floating arsenal with 20x 5in/38 cal guns, some 80x 40mm Bofers and 50x 20mms, even the Late war carriers were a beast to reckon with.

Interesting to note the wartime upgrade, Carriers and other warships were not designed entirely to stop Air attacks at the start of the war, however
if you look at the gradual increase of AAA firepower, in 1945 it was just pure nasty, with good reason too - surface ships were not much a threat the entire war (as they were from the start in which ships were feared) for example the Mogami class Cruiser, the US built the Brooklyn-class light cruiser to combat it.

Anyhow, I am thankful we don't have the possible floating arsenal that was available in 1945.

[Ack-Ack]

ack-ack

[Butcher]

(Image removed from quote.)

ack-ack

I think a website would be setup that generate's whines to help accommodate those who would spam the forums if we had that kind of ack.

[Kazan_HB]

+1

Look up the stats for the number of Japanese planes shot down during the invasion of Okinawa.

I have found the cv ack that gives me the most trouble is the manned kind. Otherwise it hasn't really been a problem for me.



wrongway

They were untrained
How many guns have the fleet? 18 battleships, 40 aircraft carriers, 32 cruisers, 200 destroyers

funny
Flak can be small fighter plane shot down, but not the big bomber 

[AWwrgwy]

They were untrained
How many guns have the fleet? 18 battleships, 40 aircraft carriers, 32 cruisers, 200 destroyers

funny
Flak can be small fighter plane shot down, but not the big bomber 

Because a bomber will take much more damage than a small fighter before it goes down, just like when it is shot by another aircraft....?

 



wrongway