FW190 D9 E-M badz diagram

[Badboy]

I used to do that a lot which is imho necessary to become really good, but I tend to not care so much for the technicalities of the fight when 'in' it. It's easy enough to label a maneuver as such and such and transitioning into such and such but understanding why is infinitely more complicated than analyzing in a debrief what happened. To take but one crucial factor as a example, timing, if your timing is of by 1/10th of a second that sometimes make the difference between victory and defeat.

Yep, the fundamental building blocks of air combat are energy, geometry and time.

Its the complexity and variety in the way those things combine to form air combat maneuvers that provides the intellectual challenge that keeps me interested and makes it so much fun.

But that same complexity and variety and the imperfect language we use to share our ideas is the reason there are so many debates about it, and that can also be fun  

Badboy

[Babalonian]

  Love flying the D-9 but with this latest patch it seems slower. Anybody else notice this or is it just me? 
  At sea level, wep on it appears to take longer to get up to speed.

I haven't noticed, at least not in the most recent patches, so not to be mean but I think it's you.     But seriously, make sure you take note of laden weight or the presence of an ETC 501 rack.

[33Vortex]

Yep, the fundamental building blocks of air combat are energy, geometry and time.

Its the complexity and variety in the way those things combine to form air combat maneuvers that provides the intellectual challenge that keeps me interested and makes it so much fun.

But that same complexity and variety and the imperfect language we use to share our ideas is the reason there are so many debates about it, and that can also be fun  

Badboy

Well said and I agree. 

[Babalonian]

I haven't noticed, at least not in the most recent patches, so not to be mean but I think it's you.     But seriously, make sure you take note of laden weight or the presence of an ETC 501 rack.

OK. slight amendment to that because I just gave it a good going through, everything with the Dora and the speed charts in AH is up to snuff, but I swear I was chasing a P-51D on the deck (20-30 feet) for ~2 sectors, and that SOB had to of at least been holding ~370 if not equal speed with me.  P-51D change?  Lucky Pony err Runstang? 

  Love flying the D-9 but with this latest patch it seems slower. Anybody else notice this or is it just me? 
  At sea level, wep on it appears to take longer to get up to speed.

Were you chasing ponys? ( )  I apologize for my earlier statement, I came to a point tonight seriously thinking you may be correct and something is amiss or has been changed if not with the Dora then somewhere else.  But I actually went through tonight up to even trying it clean and in attack mode, and matched the speed charts.  I did not however test acceleration rates, but they seem to be normal.

[Slate]

  Yes chasing 51's. No numbers just feels slower, not accell but top speed I think. Perhaps the 190d just was neutered to match it's charts and was too fast before? The 190a5 seems just as fast as the D now but with better agility. Seeing a lot more A5's of late.
  Sorry not scientific but it was immediately apparent because I fly the D so much.

[33Vortex]

Can't say I've played much lately... but when was this change implemented? I do know the D-9 well, and know the difference between carrying the ETC 501 or not is the difference between life and death when it comes down to speedflying with ponies. Were you flying clean without the rack at the time?

[Slate]

Can't say I've played much lately... but when was this change implemented? I do know the D-9 well, and know the difference between carrying the ETC 501 or not is the difference between life and death when it comes down to speedflying with ponies. Were you flying clean without the rack at the time?

  Yes no rack (No bomb loaded). Just since new patch and noticed on several sorties. I can't check numbers before the patch so I've got nothing to compare with the way it feels now. I used to eat them runstangs up. Now I just give up the chase. Guess it's time to explore some other rides. 

[33Vortex]

Yes... the D-9 at least used to be able to run down mustangs on the deck if clean without the ETC 501 rack. If that is no longer possible, well no biggie it's not what I fly the D-9 for specifically but it will make it somewhat more of a challenge in those situations you are being chased. There is actually plenty of test data available on the D-9 performance in various configurations, the standard fit was with the ETC 501 always on whether DT was carried or not. If this supposed change is accurate to actual (historical) data or not I can not tell, but it would be interesting to know.

[FLS]

  Yes no rack (No bomb loaded). Just since new patch and noticed on several sorties. I can't check numbers before the patch so I've got nothing to compare with the way it feels now. I used to eat them runstangs up. Now I just give up the chase. Guess it's time to explore some other rides. 

You can't check the speed charts?

[Slate]

You can't check the speed charts?

 

  The speed chart may be correct for this version and patch but can't verify speed chart is accurate to the former version of AH.

[FLS]

    The speed chart may be correct for this version and patch but can't verify speed chart is accurate to the former version of AH.

OK so we're just talking about feelings. It feels the same to me. 

[Babalonian]

  Yes chasing 51's. No numbers just feels slower, not accell but top speed I think. Perhaps the 190d just was neutered to match it's charts and was too fast before? The 190a5 seems just as fast as the D now but with better agility. Seeing a lot more A5's of late.
  Sorry not scientific but it was immediately apparent because I fly the D so much.

Something's different as of late.  Against a pony on the deck w/ WEP on while in a D9, yeah, something has been changed, it's not the same it used to be. 

I experienced it a bit with some ponys over the water last night.  I'll throw up a bug thread soon asking for research/clarification if we can't trace it to an announced/documented change (I'll scoure the changelogs tonight or tomorrow).

[Babalonian]

Can't say I've played much lately... but when was this change implemented? I do know the D-9 well, and know the difference between carrying the ETC 501 or not is the difference between life and death when it comes down to speedflying with ponies. Were you flying clean without the rack at the time?

I tested it w/, w/o, attack mode, fighter mode, 100% clean in each mode and 25% clean in each mode (I first noticed this while in a clean D9 in attack mode... don't ask).  I too know, penalties are still in place and aprorpiate at ground level (and I was thurough and patient, giving plenty of time for it to reach the speed and settle at it).

You can't check the speed charts?

He might not of have, but I did.  In game charts and the actual D-9s performance matches.  I suspect this is an issue (increase in performance or a change in the numbers somewhere) with the pony, which I have not done any testing with (or even been flying in since the latest patches).

[33Vortex]

Yes, I was about to say... perhaps the change is with the P51 and not the D-9?

Oh I so wish we had either the D-11, D-12 or D-13, but only a handful were built I think the D-12 may be the most numerous with a little more than a dozen that saw service. It may be a stretch but it qualifies to be included and although I agree there are many other a/c worthy of addition before the D-12, I have a special affection for the 190 family. The D-12 was significantly faster than the D-9 and was armed with 2 x MG151 + 1 x Mk108 just like the Ta152 we have in AH.

 

[Babalonian]

I have been very busy this weekend, I spent no time further on this.  I did play a little though in the MAs and have been putting attention twords it.  I think it may be with pony retaining more speed/E (or retaining it better/longer) than it used to after diving out and making no furher deviations (I know mustangs are good at that sort of thing, but for 2-2.5 sectors though, really?!)