No enemy icons?

[Sled]

I did a quick search, and it looks like the last time this was thought about was in early 2010.

I know this is a polarizing subject, but I think it is one worth trying, even if just one frame.

We now have the ability to change icons to anything we want, and should experiment with those settings in FSO.


In any case I think at least one frame with no enemy icons, or maybe set enemy icon to less than 600 yards, is worth a try.

I would think friendly icons around 2-3K would be a good start as well.

thoughts?

[ImADot]

The AvA is currently running 1.5k icons for both sides. It's tough to tell friend from foe (even with radar dots) when there's a fight going on outside of icon range. Even 1.5k doesn't give a lot of time to react once you've been able to see who that dot is. IMO, no icons or shorter than current FSO 3k icons would drive players away en masse. Having different ranges for friendly and enemy icons would not be a good compromise either.

[VonMessa]

It would be nice if there could be icons without plane-type tags until < 1.5k, and I don't mean like now where you can see the make  of the plane but not the model until closer.  I'm thinking more ofjust a distance indicator in red.  Enough to tell friend from foe, but not enough to know what it is until close enough.  Even in a real dogfight (which the age-old arguments have proven are monitors are not capable of reproducing accurately) I'm sure that most foes airplane type had to be at least 2k or closer to positively ID them.

[Krusty]

The reality is in WW2 when you spotted the planes you were attacking, you had time to react, and to engage the enemies. In this game, you do not. Partly because of the way it renders dots, partly because of many other things with how the eye sees vs how the game renders...


End result is turning icons off or "down" seriously hinders both sides before-flight-manuvers, and it dictates that the side with the best turning, slowest-stalling, plane wins. It throws ALL historical tales of how FW190s trounced SpitVs out the window. It disregards BnZ and energy fighting. All it is, is HIDING from a fight, PICKING a cheap and easy target that in real life would have seen you.


Look, there's enough wrong with FSO as it is. Don't go making it worse. Don't buy the AvA propogands. It's not better. It's not a higher skill bracket. It's cheap and changes every gameplay dynamic in a completely unhistoric way.

[Krusty]

Even in a real dogfight I'm sure that most foes airplane type had to be at least 2k or closer to positively ID them.

Not so... You realize that 2K is barely over 1 mile away? Most planes are identifiable 5x that range. In a REAL dogfight pilots looked out in the distance at the fight BEFORE they joined in, and could read the tail codes on the planes and knew WHICH pilots and which flights were engaged, and against what.


Now, I'm not saying they could pinpoint a 109G6 from a 109G2, per se... But a Me109 (F and later models) is very distinctive. As is a jug. As is a Fw.

There are plenty of cases of mis-identifying planes in WW2, but please don't confuse lack of eyesight with lack of education on what the enemy planes actually LOOKED LIKE. Most WW2 pilots would love the 60 years of hindsight and documented materials showing them what their adversaries went into combat with, like we have. That's a failing in WW2 intelligence more than it is a limitation on human vision.

[Stampf]

I did a quick search, and it looks like the last time this was thought about was in early 2010.

I know this is a polarizing subject, but I think it is one worth trying, even if just one frame.

We now have the ability to change icons to anything we want, and should experiment with those settings in FSO.


In any case I think at least one frame with no enemy icons, or maybe set enemy icon to less than 600 yards, is worth a try.

I would think friendly icons around 2-3K would be a good start as well.

thoughts?

Leave the icons the way they are is my thought.

[Squire]

FSO icon standard will remain 3k/3k. Thats for a blend of playability and historic reasons. What some other event or arena does or doesn't do is of no concern to us here. 

Past that if you want to debate the various schools of thought on the difficulties of spotting a/c in WW2 feel free.

[ELD66]

Leave the icons the way they are is my thought.

 I agree, Again we are back to the same thing as with the time difference. We want MA players to join FSO imho this would drive them away, FSO is already challenging to the novice AH2 player. The 3k icons are good, I again refer to my statement from the Time difference discussions, "If it isn't broken don't fix it."

[Sled]

You guys do realize , I was just suggesting we try it one time?

not an across the board permanent change to FSO.

But obviously it's not a popular idea.

Nice to see not much on this BB has changed.

[VonMessa]

You guys do realize , I was just suggesting we try it one time?

not an across the board permanent change to FSO.

But obviously it's not a popular idea.

Nice to see not much on this BB has changed.

I still love you sled,  just don't think that means you can shag my sister, though 

[GNucks]

I think 3K is just right. You can see the bogie dot from really far away, and in real life you might have been able to ID it, but in FSO you can usually tell whether that swarm of dots in the distance is friend or foe. If they're closing fast they're probably enemy, if they're flying parallel they could be friendly, if they're all zipping around and turning tight you've got a mix of the two. I think we have it just far enough so you have to actually LOOK, rather than twirl your hat switch around and stop when you see red.

[ImADot]

Nice to see not much on this BB has changed.

Why the dig... (at least that's the way I take it).

You made a suggestion, people have expressed opinions without silly pictures or other lameness...even Krusty's first response was non-combative (until his last paragraph  ).

[Sled]

I still love you sled,  just don't think that means you can shag my sister, though 

What's your sister look like?

[Sled]

Why the dig... (at least that's the way I take it).

You made a suggestion, people have expressed opinions without silly pictures or other lameness...even Krusty's first response was non-combative (until his last paragraph  ).

Just seemed a little like "dog pile on the rabbit." for bringing up the idea.

Maybe I am misreading it.

[Skull_001]

I think 3K is just right. You can see the bogie dot from really far away, and in real life you might have been able to ID it, but in FSO you can usually tell whether that swarm of dots in the distance is friend or foe. If they're closing fast they're probably enemy, if they're flying parallel they could be friendly, if they're all zipping around and turning tight you've got a mix of the two. I think we have it just far enough so you have to actually LOOK, rather than twirl your hat switch around and stop when you see red.

I'd agree Reb. Specially in the swarm description.
3k seems good, its a fair amount of time to react. It also can depend on monitor resolution beyond that.