Author Topic: Collision Model Is BS  (Read 1775 times)

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2012, 10:36:52 AM »
I too think BOTH planes should GO DOWN after a collision ...

thats because you dont understand real life mid-air collisions, let alone how collisions are modelled in AH.


and for the OP

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm

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Offline hitech

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2012, 11:18:32 AM »
Please don't try make this a normal collision thread.

After viewing the film, 1st I found a bug in this version , the "You have collided" message is being encoded incorrectly in the  film.
In the posted film , the message is definitely in the film, but can not viewed correctly except by me analyzing the data..

So things are working exactly as they have always been describe because Chasers computer detected a collision.

So now why did it detect a collision when the film shows separation of about 2 - 3 feet.

It is multiple things.
First look at the closure speeds of 600 mph.

Do to how the film is replayed, both the person taking the film and the other players can be played back at slightly different positions then in game.

Also Geist roll rate is very high which also increasing both the display discrepancy, and the margin of error in collision detection.

Now at 600 mph the planes are closing at approximately 1 foot per Mill a second, to put things into perspective, 60 FPS is 1 frame every 16 Mill a seconds. With accelerations and velocities in both translational and rotational axis there is always a margin of error in collision detection.

So what you are seeing is the worst case scenario, a combination of things, 1st is the small error in the film viewer and 2nd is the small error in collision detection.

Note these small discrepancies can work both ways. There also can be cases of where the film viewer would show a collision but a  collision was not detected during play.

HiTech

 

« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 11:47:44 AM by hitech »

Offline Daddkev

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2012, 11:25:58 AM »
 :aok Yeah....What HiTech said! :rock
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2012, 11:31:16 AM »
most people understand how the collision model works.  and most hate it as a double standard.

-I can avoid somebody colliding with me on my end and I wont take damage.
-I can avoid somebody having gun solution on my end and I still die.  been killed many times by a fighter's tail gunner  :bhead.

the solution to that problem is I dont think about it anymore.  It's like trying to argue the  ho/front quarter shot thingy.

semp

There are 2 main differences between gunnery and collisions that I think make it reasonable and, in fact, the right choice.

1)  Rubber bullet phenomenon aside, if gunnery wasn't based entirely on the gunner's POV, he would see a lot more hits that wouldn't wind up counting, and that would bring massive frustration in short order.  Yes, sometimes lag causes you to receive the information that your plane was in fact hit by the enemy after he's gone by, but your plane on his end did get in front of his sights at some point.

2) Collisions are relatively easier to dodge than bullets.  You can only effectively dodge bullets in very broad terms because enemy gunnery is only an approximation on your end.  You can cut it quite a bit finer when it comes to collisions, because what your end is showing is what will be counted.

Given the alternatives to these two scenarios, I think it makes sense how they have it set up.  Between the two, bullets hitting me from funny angles annoys me a lot more than the other guy not dying when he runs into me.  It's an imperfect world, but as you say, we put up with it.

Hitech-  You should sticky that post, maybe also with something about how other planes' gunnery is represented on your FE.

Wiley.
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2012, 12:02:30 PM »
Please don't try make this a normal collision thread.

After viewing the film, 1st I found a bug in this version , the "You have collided" message is being encoded incorrectly in the  film.
In the posted film , the message is definitely in the film, but can not viewed correctly except by me analyzing the data..

So things are working exactly as they have always been describe because Chasers computer detected a collision.

So now why did it detect a collision when the film shows separation of about 2 - 3 feet.

It is multiple things.
First look at the closure speeds of 600 mph.

Do to how the film is replayed, both the person taking the film and the other players can be played back at slightly different positions then in game.

Also Geist roll rate is very high which also increasing both the display discrepancy, and the margin of error in collision detection.

Now at 600 mph the planes are closing at approximately 1 foot per Mill a second, to put things into perspective, 60 FPS is 1 frame every 16 Mill a seconds. With accelerations and velocities in both translational and rotational axis there is always a margin of error in collision detection.

So what you are seeing is the worst case scenario, a combination of things, 1st is the small error in the film viewer and 2nd is the small error in collision detection.

Note these small discrepancies can work both ways. There also can be cases of where the film viewer would show a collision but a  collision was not detected during play.

HiTech

 



Fixed.

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Offline lengro

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2012, 12:37:48 PM »
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!" Tuco - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Offline Changeup

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2012, 12:42:50 PM »
Where?  :headscratch:

If you have to ask....THE man answered
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline lengro

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2012, 12:43:59 PM »
If you have to ask....THE man answered

Got that, thought you meant something else.
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2012, 01:56:16 PM »
Got that, thought you meant something else.

Cc...nope
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Rob52240

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2012, 04:04:12 AM »
I got one over the weekend.
If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2012, 08:22:47 PM »
Another fix  :aok
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Offline bustr

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2012, 11:42:01 PM »
How is this for the internet and the collison modle.................... :noid

Last week I watched an enemy aircraft dive to pick a freindly from 2k out. I called on VOX for the freindly to check his 6. The enemy aircraft looked like he dove too fast, clipped the freindly from behind and continued in brightly burning broken smoking peices into the ground behind the freindly. No ack was firing and no other freindlys within 3k. The freindly I called to on VOX was in a P47 so no rear gunner.

Then I pull up side him and mention that was one knarly collison I witnessed. He says he got no collision message and it looked like the guy dove behind him into the ground. He didn't even see the flames and broken wreakage I saw. Just the enemy aircraft diving down behind him and lawn darting.

So the vaugaries of the collision model get weirder yet.
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Offline Tumor

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2012, 11:52:29 PM »
JMHO but... the collision model seems to have been created with the idea that most people/pilots would normally try to avoid a collision in the first place.  If this is true, it could very well be the worst feel-good effort ever attempted.
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Offline Scca

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Re: Collision Model Is BS
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 04:45:08 AM »
JMHO but... the collision model seems to have been created with the idea that most people/pilots would normally try to avoid a collision in the first place.  If this is true, it could very well be the worst feel-good effort ever attempted.
Feel good?  More like real good. Don't hit stuff and you don't get damaged.  Seems to work "real good" to me.
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Offline Rob52240

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If I had a gun with 3 bullets and I was locked in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler, Saddam and Zipp...  I would shoot Zipp 3 times.