Author Topic: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman  (Read 2344 times)

Offline Reaper90

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2012, 10:23:07 PM »
Where did this kid become a Thug?  Can you define that for me?  What did he do that was "thug".   Who identified young black males as the thieves?  Were people assaulted, shot at, threatened with guns?  What did this kid do that has made him a 'thug"?

As far as I'm concerned, Dan, he became a thug as soon as he followed Zimmerman back to his car and attempted to beat his azz, breaking his nose and (according to witnesses) beating his head into the concrete several times. Because Zimmerman was following him.

You can Monday morning quarterback it all you want, if I were in the unfortunate position of being in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have protected my life just as he did.
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Offline coombz

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2012, 10:28:34 PM »
His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face

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Offline katanaso

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2012, 10:29:52 PM »
His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face



Realize that they would've cleaned him up before putting him in the squad car.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2012, 10:34:28 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, Dan, he became a thug as soon as he followed Zimmerman back to his car and attempted to beat his azz, breaking his nose and (according to witnesses) beating his head into the concrete several times. Because Zimmerman was following him.

You can Monday morning quarterback it all you want, if I were in the unfortunate position of being in Zimmerman's shoes, I would have protected my life just as he did.

Would you have disregarded the 911 dispatcher's comment to not follow him?  Does Zimmerman have any accountability in this as the adult?

Did you catch the video of the clean and undamaged Zimmerman being brought into the police station that night btw?  Not a mark on him. Not a scratch, grass stain, or blood to be seen.

So lets take this all the way since we're Monday morning QBing.  The trigger for the encounter was what?  I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the police.   I have no problem with him patrolling the neighborhood.  I have a huge problem with him carrying a gun, getting out of the car and following the kid despite the 911 folks telling him they didn't need him to do that.  

I have no problem with the kid wearing a hoodie and having it over his head.  I have no problem with him buying skittles and Iced Tea.  

So lets take it further.  Zimmerman's friend says Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin approached him from behind asking him if he had a problem.  Zimmerman turned and told him he had no problem then reached for his phone.  So lets play it out.  

You are the kid and the guy says there is no problem and reaches for something.  Did the kid see the gun?  Where was Zimmerman carrying it?  

At that point the kid tries to clobber him in fear for his own life.  Some stranger with a gun has been following him.  Is the kid wrong or was he standing his ground to defend himself?

What do you do in that situation?  

Bottom line is the adult, Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and left the gun at home while letting the PD do their job.  His poor judgment ruined many lives.
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Offline coombz

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2012, 10:38:23 PM »
Realize that they would've cleaned him up before putting him in the squad car.

Sure, would they have fixed his nose and let him change his shirt though? I guess perhaps, if they took the shirt in as evidence.

Still seems dodgy to me  :noid  He doesn't look like he was beaten up at all
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Offline Reaper90

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2012, 10:44:14 PM »
Would you have disregarded the 911 dispatcher's comment to not follow him?  Does Zimmerman have any accountability in this as the adult?

Just in the name of accuracy, the 911 dispatcher did NOT tell him not to follow him, he (Zimmerman) was told "that is not necessary."

Quote
Did you catch the video of the clean and undamaged Zimmerman being brought into the police station that night btw?  Not a mark on him. Not a scratch, grass stain, or blood to be seen.


Because of course you, Dan, can tell more from a blurry security cam video taken hours after the fact, from 10-12 feet away, than the officers who inspected him up close and personal within moments of the attack.  

Really? I had given you a lot more credit than you apparently deserved.

Quote
So lets take this all the way since we're Monday morning QBing.  The trigger for the encounter was what?  I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the police.   I have no problem with him patrolling the neighborhood.  I have a huge problem with him carrying a gun, getting out of the car and following the kid despite the 911 folks telling him they didn't need him to do that.  

I have no problem with the kid wearing a hoodie and having it over his head.  I have no problem with him buying skittles and Iced Tea.  

So lets take it further.  Zimmerman's friend says Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin approached him from behind asking him if he had a problem.  Zimmerman turned and told him he had no problem then reached for his phone.  So lets play it out.  

You are the kid and the guy says there is no problem and reaches for something.  Did the kid see the gun?  Where was Zimmerman carrying it?  

At that point the kid tries to clobber him in fear for his own life.  Some stranger with a gun has been following him.  Is the kid wrong or was he standing his ground to defend himself?

What do you do in that situation?  


Bottom line is, Dan, kid is being followed. Follower loses kid, decides to turn around and go back to his car. Kid is pissed, pursues follower, and proceeds to attempt to kick his azz.

You can believe what you want, I'll take the word of the police, the witnesses, and the victim who made a split second decision when he thought his life was on the line.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2012, 10:56:47 PM »
Just in the name of accuracy, the 911 dispatcher did NOT tell him not to follow him, he (Zimmerman) was told "that is not necessary."
 

Because of course you, Dan, can tell more from a blurry security cam video taken hours after the fact, from 10-12 feet away, than the officers who inspected him up close and personal within moments of the attack.  

Really? I had given you a lot more credit than you apparently deserved.

Bottom line is, Dan, kid is being followed. Follower loses kid, decides to turn around and go back to his car. Kid is pissed, pursues follower, and proceeds to attempt to kick his azz.

You can believe what you want, I'll take the word of the police, the witnesses, and the victim who made a split second decision when he thought his life was on the line.



So the word of Zimmerman is truth and the kid has no voice other then the girlfriend on the phone who heard him ask Zimmerman if there was a problem, then the phone goes dead.

I'm not going to argue that there was a fight.  Neither you or I know exactly what happened so we're both making guesses.  What concerns me is how quick this kid is labeled a thug.  I don't know the accuracy of Zimmerman's comment on he was walking back to the car.  Even if it's the complete truth, do we then discount the girlfriend on the phone when Martin asked the question?  If he was going to assault Zimmerman without warning, why is he on the phone?  Why did he even ask a question of Zimmerman?

Zimmerman says he reached for his phone.  Did the kid see the gun and react?  We don't know.  But it's possible.  What would you do in that situation? Turn and run?  For all I know the kid made a split second decision based on seeing Zimmerman's gun. Maybe he thought he was going to be robbed?   It  clearly was in a spot where Zimmerman could get it easily as everything suggests he shot the kid point blank in the chest.  The same argument that Zimmerman felt threatened applies to Martin too.  Stranger with a gun.  Hmmm.  Not real safe.

So OK the "Thug' fighting for his life has the guy on the ground and the guy shoots him in the chest.

I still come back to the guy with the gun should have stayed in his car and let the PD do their job. 

Flip the scenario.  You have some kid following you for a while.  You turn to ask him if there is a problem.  He says no, reaches for something and you see a gun.  What would your response be?  Lets be honest, it's not real hard to ask what was Zimmerman really reaching for when the kid got near him too.
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Offline Delirium

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2012, 11:04:00 PM »
Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and left the gun at home while letting the PD do their job. 

Yes... but you are taking for granted that we are getting the whole story of all the events after that 911 call. I agree with you that Zimmerman should of remained part of a neighborhood WATCH (not neighborhood ACTION) and stayed in the car. I don't think any jury will allow the 'stand your ground' defense as he definitely sought out the encounter.

However, I'm not going to convict or judge anyone (either Zimmerman or Martin) with the very limited (and often jaded) amount of information beyond that 911 call. In fact, the 911 call is probably the only reliable source of information I've seen/heard from this case so far. I've seen the press dig up all kinds of information on both of them in the quest for ratings and the battlelines have been drawn socially/racially.

Either way, Trayvon isn't going to be the only casualty after this is over but we still need to let the facts/justice play out, no matter how polarizing it can be.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 11:06:06 PM by Delirium »
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Offline ACE

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2012, 11:07:58 PM »
you can also thank tweeter and facebook for all the twisting of the story and the public's opinions have already found Zimmerman Guilty, also HLN's Nancy Graces rantings of why why why agenda.

Its Twitter.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2012, 11:13:11 PM »
Yes... but you are taking for granted that we are getting the whole story of all the events after that 911 call. I agree with you that Zimmerman should of remained part of a neighborhood WATCH and stayed in the car. I don't think any jury will allow the 'stand your ground' defense as he definitely sought out the encounter.

However, I'm not going to convict or judge anyone (either Zimmerman or Martin) with the very limited (and often jaded) amount of information beyond that 911 call. In fact, the 911 call is probably the only reliable source of information I've seen/heard from this case so far. I've seen the press dig up all kinds of information on both of them in the quest for ratings and the battlelines have been drawn socially/racially.

Either way, Trayvon isn't going to be the only casualty after this is over but we still need to let the facts/justice play out, no matter how polarizing it can be.

I have no problem with that.  I'm angry that the adult didn't use better judgement and that won't change regardless.  All the bad decisions made followed his first one to get out of his car and follow the kid while carrying a gun.  There is no going back once you pull the trigger.  
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2012, 11:24:02 PM »
His nose looks unbroken on the police surveillance video and there are zero marks on his head or face



The police officers stated in their report that Zimmerman suffered a possible broken nose and a laceration to the back of his head... The video deceptively shown on TV shows Zimmerman after he was treated for his injuries.
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Offline dunnrite

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2012, 11:39:13 PM »
completely biased, terrified of guns, AND a historian....got it   :rolleyes:
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2012, 11:55:13 PM »
completely biased, terrified of guns, AND a historian....got it   :rolleyes:

If you are referring to me, it's nice to know you read me so well  :aok
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2012, 12:40:01 AM »
Would you have disregarded the 911 dispatcher's comment to not follow him?  Does Zimmerman have any accountability in this as the adult?

Did you catch the video of the clean and undamaged Zimmerman being brought into the police station that night btw?  Not a mark on him. Not a scratch, grass stain, or blood to be seen.

So lets take this all the way since we're Monday morning QBing.  The trigger for the encounter was what?  I have no problem with Zimmerman calling the police.   I have no problem with him patrolling the neighborhood.  I have a huge problem with him carrying a gun, getting out of the car and following the kid despite the 911 folks telling him they didn't need him to do that.  

I have no problem with the kid wearing a hoodie and having it over his head.  I have no problem with him buying skittles and Iced Tea.  

So lets take it further.  Zimmerman's friend says Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Martin approached him from behind asking him if he had a problem.  Zimmerman turned and told him he had no problem then reached for his phone.  So lets play it out.  

You are the kid and the guy says there is no problem and reaches for something.  Did the kid see the gun?  Where was Zimmerman carrying it?  

At that point the kid tries to clobber him in fear for his own life.  Some stranger with a gun has been following him.  Is the kid wrong or was he standing his ground to defend himself?

What do you do in that situation?  

Bottom line is the adult, Zimmerman, should have stayed in his car and left the gun at home while letting the PD do their job.  His poor judgment ruined many lives.

Dan, dan... You have too many preconceived notions running here...

Martin was 6'2", about 160 lbs. He didn't look like a kid. Martin's mother released photos of a young boy, when the reality is he was a near full grown young man at the time. He was wearing a hood that limited what one could see of his face. Zimmerman could not have known how old Martin was. It's a safe bet that he figured he was looking at an adult.

911 operators have no authority, and being in a call center somewhere, they cannot always understand circumstances. A 911 operator has zero liability... You can't sue them or the police department. Even if you follow their advice, you still own any consequences. The standard line to a caller is to avoid a situation. That, however, does not make the situation avoidable. Getting out of his car was a judgement call by Zimmerman. Perhaps, in hindsight, not the best decision. Nonetheless, he had no verbal or physical contact with Martin whatsoever. When he returned to his car, he was approached by Martin, from behind. When asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman said no and turned his back on Martin. Clearly, he was attempting to avoid a confrontation. Zimmerman then took out his phone. I speculate that Martin figured Zimmerman was going to call 911, and decided to preempt that. He blind-sided Zimmerman, knocking him to the ground. Again, Martin was not wearing a sign that said, "I'm not quite 18 yet". Martin jumps on Zimmerman and proceeds to pound his head. Zimmerman managed to draw his weapon and fire.

Bad luck for Trayvon.. He made a decision that cost him his life. He could have continued on his way home (assuming he wasn't really casing the neighborhood) and nothing whatsoever would have occurred. Instead, he decided to be a punk and confront Zimmerman. It turns out that this was his final bad decision.

I have zero sympathy for Trayvon Martin. Had he not been smoking weed in school, he would not have been suspended. Had he not been suspended, he would have been in class rather than wandering through a private, gated community (we call that trespassing in my community) behind the townhouses, not on the street. The gates and fence were there for a reason; to keep uninvited, non-residents out. So, why was he skulking around behind the townhouses? If his intention was to go home, why not walk the sidewalk? Would an innocent "teenager" look for trouble and confront Zimmerman? Would he be skulking around behind people's homes? Going out to buy Skittles... My ass.

Here's couple of statistics from the National Gang Center: 40% of violent gang members are under 18 years of age. 42% of murders committed by gang members are attributed to members under 18. So clearly, a 17 year old is quite capable of horrific violence. Thus, we cannot give them a pass simply because they are not yet designated as adults.

One last thing... You have emphasized the fact that Zimmerman was carrying a firearm. So what? That doesn't have the slightest bearing on the facts leading up to the confrontation by Martin. Zimmerman's gun was legal. Rarely do I leave my home unarmed. Should I be unexpectedly assaulted by a criminal, who probably won't state that he's under 18; exercising my right to defend myself with my firearm somehow would make me the bad guy? No, it would make me a survivor, something the criminal could not claim.
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Offline spammer

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Re: Your thoughts on Trayvon/Zimmerman
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2012, 12:51:31 AM »
On the same day Trayvon died, 41 people were gunned down on the South Side of Chicago, Where's the outrage?

this is all political and this thread should be shut down.

Sorry Guppy, this is being politicized by the left and is a diversion from the real issue's, the Economy, Energy Prices, Health Care, Cost of living, Dem's are reaching for anything.

Sorry guys, I hope this thread is nixed.