Author Topic: Collisions  (Read 11989 times)

Offline Wiley

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #435 on: April 19, 2012, 11:27:56 AM »
This thread is an unrelenting source of workday amusement.   :rofl

Please carry on  :rock

"Unrelenting" is a particularly apt choice of word.

Wiley.
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #436 on: April 19, 2012, 12:02:42 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 12:15:59 PM by Skuzzy »
I am my Ideal ! - You may now return to your petty bickering.

Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #437 on: April 19, 2012, 12:35:15 PM »
As far as "Big Week", what you claim sounded "NUTS" was viewed as acceptable losses by Allied Air Command. "lure the Luftwaffe into a decisive battle" sure does sound like they were engaging the Luftwaffe not just HOing and hoping for the best.
"luring" the Germans into battle is some GREAT PR SPEAK (which was an AF priority at that time) which has NO BASIS in reality ... In reality, the germans had been building up their bomber killers over the winter and were intent on clearing the skies of allied bombers in the spring. No one BAITED them into the air.

"Big Week" is well documented since it was an Allied offensive, and yes there was a question of air superiority, unless you think our bombers and fighters only showed up after the Normandy Invasion.  :rolleyes: Allied bombing was going on for a long time before there WAS a front line.
Prior to the invasion, the "Front Line" was the coast ... The germans NEVER controlled the air over it ... The allies conducted tactical raids at will. By D-Day the germans had withdrawn almost all air support to Russia or moved it to rear areas for bomber interception.

Big Week is well documented, but is misunderstood by most ... You probably think the Allies WON ... In reality, we lost around 450 planes to enemy action and they lost around 350 ... Downed Allied Pilots were mostly killed or captured, Germans Pilots had much better survival odds. Close Escort remained in effect during Big Week and saved MANY allied bombers. As mentioned BIG WEEK was what the GERMANS were prepared for. The bombers concentrated on Vital Aircraft Factories, but failed to accomplish much ... due to the INTENSE and FREQUENT interceptions. The ONLY thing that saved the allies was, the suprise introduction of the P-51 in strength.
:cool:
I am my Ideal ! - You may now return to your petty bickering.

Offline VonMessa

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #438 on: April 19, 2012, 12:45:23 PM »
"luring" the Germans into battle is some GREAT PR SPEAK (which was an AF priority at that time) which has NO BASIS in reality ... In reality, the germans had been building up their bomber killers over the winter and were intent on clearing the skies of allied bombers in the spring. No one BAITED them into the air.
Prior to the invasion, the "Front Line" was the coast ... The germans NEVER controlled the air over it ... The allies conducted tactical raids at will. By D-Day the germans had withdrawn almost all air support to Russia or moved it to rear areas for bomber interception.

Big Week is well documented, but is misunderstood by most ... You probably think the Allies WON ... In reality, we lost around 450 planes to enemy action and they lost around 350 ... Downed Allied Pilots were mostly killed or captured, Germans Pilots had much better survival odds. Close Escort remained in effect during Big Week and saved MANY allied bombers. As mentioned BIG WEEK was what the GERMANS were prepared for. The bombers concentrated on Vital Aircraft Factories, but failed to accomplish much ... due to the INTENSE and FREQUENT interceptions. The ONLY thing that saved the allies was, the suprise introduction of the P-51 in strength.
:cool:
]


Yawn...
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #439 on: April 19, 2012, 01:22:21 PM »
Snipped

Do you ever tire of being wrong?

ack-ack
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Offline Zodiac

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #440 on: April 19, 2012, 06:10:58 PM »
"luring" the Germans into battle is some GREAT PR SPEAK (which was an AF priority at that time) which has NO BASIS in reality ... In reality, the germans had been building up their bomber killers over the winter and were intent on clearing the skies of allied bombers in the spring. No one BAITED them into the air.
Prior to the invasion, the "Front Line" was the coast ... The germans NEVER controlled the air over it ... The allies conducted tactical raids at will. By D-Day the germans had withdrawn almost all air support to Russia or moved it to rear areas for bomber interception.

Big Week is well documented, but is misunderstood by most ... You probably think the Allies WON ... In reality, we lost around 450 planes to enemy action and they lost around 350 ... Downed Allied Pilots were mostly killed or captured, Germans Pilots had much better survival odds. Close Escort remained in effect during Big Week and saved MANY allied bombers. As mentioned BIG WEEK was what the GERMANS were prepared for. The bombers concentrated on Vital Aircraft Factories, but failed to accomplish much ... due to the INTENSE and FREQUENT interceptions. The ONLY thing that saved the allies was, the suprise introduction of the P-51 in strength.
:cool:

EVZ I'm glad to see that you have a better grasp of what happened nearly 70 years ago, than historians not to mention the planners and pilots who were there. The fact that your response to documented information is to put forth your OPINION is interesting. I can already see your response denying that it is opinion, however that is exactly what it is due to the fact that you can't produce anything to support it, and you simply have no basis on which to refute the people that were. I mean honestly, first everyone except you is wrong about the collision model, then Ack-Ack is wrong about close escorts being used, Karnak is wrong about the way close escort was used, and now I, and the documents I quoted, are wrong about the operations of "Big Week". Wow seems that you believe you are the only person here that could ever be right. The condescending manner in which you post reveals the fact that you will never accept being wrong no matter how many times it is shown to be the case. Suggestions to improve your interactions. 1.) Do not pretend that you speak for the 'majority' of players regarding the CM or any other matter. 2.) AH has some really good trainers that could help you with understanding and employing ACM. 3.) When your wrong suck it up and learn from it 4.) Do some research on WWII before you convince yourself that you are an authority on the subject, because you are severely misguided on the history. I think these things will be of great benefit in your future interactions with either in game or here on the forums. I'm sure you will have some response that will attempt to disprove what I have posted here, and I quite frankly expect it, because well that's what you do EVZ.  :lol
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 06:15:14 PM by Zodiac »
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Offline Zodiac

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #441 on: April 19, 2012, 06:15:58 PM »
Do you ever tire of being wrong?

ack-ack


I very seriously doubt he has ever been wrong, in his mind at least.
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Quote from: Skuzzy
No cookie for you.
Quote from: Wiley
If they want to run to their ack or friendlies that's fine.  It's up to me to catch them and not get killed in the process if I can.

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #442 on: April 19, 2012, 06:17:37 PM »
Hubris.
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Offline Zoney

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #443 on: April 19, 2012, 06:30:59 PM »
EVZ,  :salute sir.

Don't think I have ever encountered you in the game.  Do you fly planes in this game?
Wag more, bark less.

Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #444 on: April 19, 2012, 07:34:12 PM »
I'm sure you will have some response that will attempt to disprove what I have posted here,
Nope ... you've illustrated your limitations quite adequately ... I do believe you have the potential to comprehend, but wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon ...
:cool:
I am my Ideal ! - You may now return to your petty bickering.

Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #445 on: April 19, 2012, 07:40:20 PM »

I very seriously doubt he has ever been wrong, in his mind at least.
I'm almost ALWAYS wrong when I expect people to deal rationally with factual material. But, hope springs eternal ... Hey! there was even somebody here who knew who Archimedes was without googleing him !
:lol
I am my Ideal ! - You may now return to your petty bickering.

Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #446 on: April 19, 2012, 07:59:29 PM »
Do you fly planes in this game?
Sure ... take a look at last months stats in MWA. This Mo. I've got LOTS of rehersals, cut's into online time ...
:cool:
I am my Ideal ! - You may now return to your petty bickering.

Offline VonMessa

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #447 on: April 19, 2012, 08:03:23 PM »
I'm almost ALWAYS wrong when I expect people to deal rationally with factual material. But, hope springs eternal ... Hey! there was even somebody here who knew who Archimedes was without googleing him !
:lol

You know he didn't google him?

You really are omnipotent...
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #448 on: April 19, 2012, 08:32:06 PM »
I'm almost ALWAYS wrong when I expect people to deal rationally with factual material.

It must really suck when you fail to meet your own expectations.

I think I might have to join VonMessa in the MW arena one of these nights and rack up some easy kills.

ack-ack
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Offline SIK1

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #449 on: April 19, 2012, 10:12:54 PM »
This thread is an unrelenting source of workday amusement.   :rofl

Please carry on  :rock

Yes, yes it is.  :aok
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