limit the tiger and tiger 2

[oakranger]

Depends on the two in question, but generally false.  The Wirbelwind, a GV, can kill an aircraft before the aircraft even knows it is there.  I have had it happen to me since the icons were shortened and I don't exactly play a lot.

I would be very curious what the K/D ratio of the perk tanks and Wirbelwinds would be without the effect of the concrete sitters.  Right now the Tiger II has, by far, the highest K/D ratio of any unit.

I run into the problem too.  Just do not know what you are attacking until you get the icon, it fires it primary weapon and/or eyes on the ground tells me.  I die more times from WW than all the other GV put togeather that killed me. 

[Tank-Ace]

Depends on the two in question, but generally false.  The Wirbelwind, a GV, can kill an aircraft before the aircraft even knows it is there.  I have had it happen to me since the icons were shortened and I don't exactly play a lot.

I would be very curious what the K/D ratio of the perk tanks and Wirbelwinds would be without the effect of the concrete sitters.  Right now the Tiger II has, by far, the highest K/D ratio of any unit.

We're talking GV's as a group, not specific units. A wirby can only provide even semi-reliable defense out to about D1000, and even then I personally never had any problems getting through. Hell, I've gotten 8 kills in a Ju-88 by dive bombing from high alt to avoid flackers. Granted I salvoed off 10 50kg bombs from each aircraft, but I still put all 10 of those bombs within 50yds of my target. One kill with one salvo of 10, 3 with another, and then 2 kills with a 500kg, a miss, 1kill and 1kill for a total of eight.

While I admit this was before the GV icon range changes, I still didn't need the icons to identify targets. I knew which side of the line the friendlies would be on, and there was a clearly defined line between the two. Even if there weren't, I would have simply dropped on targets further behind the line.


People imagine that you need to have that big flourecent icon above an enemy's head in order to kill it. In a tank, I could generally have picked out who was friendly and who was enemy even without the icon; you can tell by their movment, their actions, their possition, and their direction of fire.



Oak and semp, you're still ignoring what I'm saying. Upping a perk tank already entails more risk than upping a perk fighter of the same price. Concrete sitting is just the GV version of the pick and run, or ack hugging tactic. Quite litterally, you're proposing the equivelant of penalizing aircraft for not furballing.

And in addition, removing the ability to concrete sit for perk tanks will have unintended consequences, ones that even hard core anti-GV'ers like Krusty or High-Tone wouldn't want to happen.



Let me put it this way; I have 6 years of expierence with Aces High, and in those 6 years, I've had a lot of play time doing all the jobs, even bomb****ing, though I'm not real proud to say it. When I say GV'ers have it rough, I'm not just speaking from the GV'ing perspective, I'm speaking from the bomb**** perspective as well.

How many of you are speaking from not only the same depth of expiereince? Not more than a few unless I miss my guess.

[Rob52240]

I agree. 

And if they're not going to leave the concrete maybe we need a fuel supply and reliability model for them.

It's a lot like seeing a 262 strafe troops running towards a maproom. 

[Butcher]

Depends on the two in question, but generally false.  The Wirbelwind, a GV, can kill an aircraft before the aircraft even knows it is there.  I have had it happen to me since the icons were shortened and I don't exactly play a lot.

I would be very curious what the K/D ratio of the perk tanks and Wirbelwinds would be without the effect of the concrete sitters.  Right now the Tiger II has, by far, the highest K/D ratio of any unit.

Good reason too, The Tiger 2 never leaves Concrete so its protected in the event it gets bombed people tower out. Same people get their butts handed to them in a fair GV engagement.

I've seen more Tiger 2s pop up and sit on concrete lately, only one or two ever spawn to attack (one tiger 2 kill legit in the past 3-4 months) - People get more crafty with Panthers then Tigers period.
Sad thing is I have no clue what people are going to do with 50000 perks, everyones reason is "zomg I dont want to lose perks" this is why they never attack with a perk tank.

In Retrospect, most of the timid players will do this and not change, you can't do much against someone who camps concrete with a Tiger, however you will rarely EVER see them if someone has bombs.
For example V135 - king of the spawn camping spots, best thing to do is bring bombs, kill the hangers and the tigers disappear. Unfortunately you can't

For the 5 players I know camp the concrete, most don't play so timidly which I am glad. The few that do this really just go show their lack of sportsmanship and having fun.

[Karnak]

Tank-Ace,

I wasn't hunting GVs.  I was flying along at low altitude looking for enemy aircraft.  I never got within icon range of the stupid Wirbelwind.

I am sorry that you think that GVs should be immune to aircraft while being able to destroy any aircraft at will, but things just are not as lopsided as you make them out to be.  Whenever the GV fans outlandish claims of the effect aircraft have on them is examined, the claims are shown to be wild exagerations.

[Butcher]

I am sorry that you think that GVs should be immune to aircraft while being able to destroy any aircraft at will, but things just are not as lopsided as you make them out to be.  Whenever the GV fans outlandish claims of the effect aircraft have on them is examined, the claims are shown to be wild exagerations.

Bombing gets annoying, but if you whine about being bombed you seriously suck in a GV. Of the thousands of kills I get a tour, I get bombed less then 25 times.

Ill take those numbers all day long.

[Mano]

I would like to have a limit on how many Tiger I's and Tiger II's can spawn at a given time for a different reason.
The Tiger I and Tiger II were limited production tanks. There were only 492 King Tigers and 1,347 Tiger I's ever built. Allied bombing
and scarcity of materials made it difficult for the Germans to produce those tanks. They also suffered from engine and
transmission problems that made them very unreliable.  Many of them were abandoned when they broke down because under certain
conditions they were unserviceable and because they were not manufactured in the way the T-34 and M-4 were produced.
It would make more sense to limit how many can spawn because of their historical numbers in WWII.

I don't want to see the perk system changed because we currently see every single type of GV being used
in the Late War Arena. The GV play in AH would really change if everyone was driving the best perked
tank available. I don't see a problem with The High Value Perked Tanks staying on the pavement. One or two bombs and
the player just lost 100 to 140 perks (Tiger II).......poof....  LOL. If his engine is running he won't hear the bombs coming down and
won't tower out in time.

I have never had any trouble killing Tiger I's, but the Tiger II does take more effort. I usually kill them with a T-34/85
and they die with the HVAP shells at close range. I have seen lots of players take them
out with the M-18 as well. A well placed shot can take them out with one or two rounds. All their armor is concentrated in the
front so you have to get to their flank or get behind them. M-18's and T-34's are fast and are well suited for taking them out.
Both tanks (M-18 and T-34/85) are a bargain at only 1 perk point. 

Good Hunting,
Mano
 

[Tec]

Hangar campers crying about people actually defending their base?  Unpossible!

[Chalenge]

More like perk fliers complaining about GVs being in the game even. So lets carry this through and say that perk fighters and bombers can launch one at a time until the last one to spawn is 10k from the field.

Limiting users in that way will only make users mad. Think about it. How come I can see a 262 leaving but I cant have one? I have perks too!

Bad idea.

[Rob52240]

Hangar campers crying about people actually defending their base?  Unpossible!

+1 for using 'unpossible'

[guncrasher]

More like perk fliers complaining about GVs being in the game even. So lets carry this through and say that perk fighters and bombers can launch one at a time until the last one to spawn is 10k from the field.

Limiting users in that way will only make users mad. Think about it. How come I can see a 262 leaving but I cant have one? I have perks too!

Bad idea.

been playing for 6 years and only 3 times i have seen more than 1 262's  up at the same time.  and I can tell you that only twice I have seen more than 1 set of b29's up.  when you up a plane you always run the risk of losing perks.  either to enemy action or to dumb luck crashing on takeoff/landing and getting a ditch.

uping a tiger2 and sitting on concrete has basically zero risk of losing perks.  even from bombs as you can hear them falling for several seconds before impact.  hell you can even see if they are coming if the plane is low enough.  and just by looking at the stats for this month you can easily deduct that most tanks are either on concrete or close enough to make it back if there's a chance of losing precious perks.

all I am saying is if you want to up a tiger2 you should be have some risk involved in losing some perks just like it happens with airplanes.  and they way i see it most people just dont want to take a risk but get the benefits of it by sitting on concrete.

look at the statistics here and you can easily tell who sits on concrete as nobody can be that lucky getting so many kills with so few deaths.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour146&pindex=117

semp

[oakranger]

been playing for 6 years and only 3 times i have seen more than 1 262's  up at the same time.  and I can tell you that only twice I have seen more than 1 set of b29's up.  when you up a plane you always run the risk of losing perks.  either to enemy action or to dumb luck crashing on takeoff/landing and getting a ditch.

uping a tiger2 and sitting on concrete has basically zero risk of losing perks.  even from bombs as you can hear them falling for several seconds before impact.  hell you can even see if they are coming if the plane is low enough.  and just by looking at the stats for this month you can easily deduct that most tanks are either on concrete or close enough to make it back if there's a chance of losing precious perks.

all I am saying is if you want to up a tiger2 you should be have some risk involved in losing some perks just like it happens with airplanes.  and they way i see it most people just dont want to take a risk but get the benefits of it by sitting on concrete.

look at the statistics here and you can easily tell who sits on concrete as nobody can be that lucky getting so many kills with so few deaths.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsbyp.php?sortby=0&selectTour=LWTour146&pindex=117

semp

How many many of them spawn camp?  I can name a few on that list that does. 

[guncrasher]

How many many of them spawn camp?  I can name a few on that list that does. 

more than a few and from a safe place.  where they can run back to base at the smallest chance of losing their perks.  the point of the wish is to make it equal to upping a perked plane in the game.  you can always lose it.  but upping a tiger2 and sitting at your own base basically involves no risk.

look the score of some of the truly great tankers in the game.  and they dont really sit at their own base.  they may camp as hell but they have hundreds of deaths also and not from tiger 2's.


semp

[Tank-Ace]

Tank-Ace,

I wasn't hunting GVs.  I was flying along at low altitude looking for enemy aircraft.  I never got within icon range of the stupid Wirbelwind.

I am sorry that you think that GVs should be immune to aircraft while being able to destroy any aircraft at will, but things just are not as lopsided as you make them out to be.  Whenever the GV fans outlandish claims of the effect aircraft have on them is examined, the claims are shown to be wild exagerations.

Again, I've never said anything even remotely close to this. You're trying to portray me as this fanatical tank fan, who thinks its only fair if I have a field day, and thats not at all what I'm about.


Theres a world of difference between being being allowed to sit on concrete, and destroying aircraft with impunity. If you want to say that WIRBS have to go, say, 1000yds from base before landing, else they get no perks, I would be fine with that. Why? Because wirblewinds can actually defend themselves from aircraft, which is something the Tiger I and II cannot do.

You have yet to say how its fair to REQUIRE the two highest value targets to go far off base regardless of situation, or else lose perk points. Again, its the EXACT EQUIVELANT of REQUIRING 262's an 163's to go out and furball (and by this, I mean actually get in there and mix it up).

Sorry, but if theres even 1 bomb-carrying aircraft overhead, then the requirment to go off-base is monsterously unfair. What you're asking is for the Tiger II to drive out to where a death is almost guaranteed.



I don't care if HTC doesn't like personal attacks, but right now, you're all being a pack of bloody idiots! You're looking at the solution to one problem in isolation, and then trying to apply it to EVERY situation.

[oakranger]

Again, I've never said anything even remotely close to this. You're trying to portray me as this fanatical tank fan, who thinks its only fair if I have a field day, and thats not at all what I'm about.


Theres a world of difference between being being allowed to sit on concrete, and destroying aircraft with impunity. If you want to say that WIRBS have to go, say, 1000yds from base before landing, else they get no perks, I would be fine with that. Why? Because wirblewinds can actually defend themselves from aircraft, which is something the Tiger I and II cannot do.

You have yet to say how its fair to REQUIRE the two highest value targets to go far off base regardless of situation, or else lose perk points. Again, its the EXACT EQUIVELANT of REQUIRING 262's an 163's to go out and furball (and by this, I mean actually get in there and mix it up).

Sorry, but if theres even 1 bomb-carrying aircraft overhead, then the requirment to go off-base is monsterously unfair. What you're asking is for the Tiger II to drive out to where a death is almost guaranteed.



I don't care if HTC doesn't like personal attacks, but right now, you're all being a pack of bloody idiots! You're looking at the solution to one problem in isolation, and then trying to apply it to EVERY situation.

Cool down, Tank-ace.  Now here is a question for you.  What is the % of bombs killing an GV?   There are times that i will used all three bombs on one tank and still do not kill it.  And i am sure i am not the only one.