The Dora and flaps

[mthrockmor]

I spent some time going through the search function, with no luck. What I would like to know is when and where does one use the flaps on the 190D. I know they are not the same kind of flaps as the 38 or 51, instead those goofy 'plywood drops down' types.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Boo

[FLS]

Use flaps to decrease your stall speed. In a turn this lets you turn at slow speeds where you would normally stall.You can also pull more G, turn at a faster rate, then you can without flaps at speeds where you won't stall without flaps. Flaps tend to get you too slow so use them when you need them but don't leave them out.

[mthrockmor]

I understand this in general though not sure if this applies to the Dora. Are you saying that one notch of flaps will increase the turn radius in a similar concept as the P-51D?

Boo

[JOACH1M]

Pervert is the goto man for this job. 

[BaldEagl]

I can't speak to the Dora specifically as I usually fly an A8 but 190 flaps won't deploy until 170 mph and if you've gotten that slow in a Dora you've probably already made your first mistake.

I have fought that slow on several occasions in an A8 against F6F's, Spits, Ki's and the like.  I've used flaps successfully to gain a quick angle for a snapshot and to slow down for an overshoot in both flat and rolling scissors but once commited it's generally a last ditch effort as the A8 at least doesn't have the acceleration to get away.

A flaps out Dora can give a P-51D a pretty good turn fight so I'd expect it to be similar against some P-47's and others of their ilk.

On a side note I one day won a me in a 110G-2 on the deck turn fight against a Spit,  The fight lasted almost 10 minutes and was one of the most intense I've ever flown in.  I was using everything I knew including flaps.  If you can find that type of match-up it will teach you a lot about how to fight from a severe disadvantage.  I was going to say it would teach you a lot about how to control that type of fight but I was never in control, only reacting which is where you'll end up in a slow 190 too.  As always the opposing pilot will make a big difference.

[Murdr]

What I would like to know is when and where does one use the flaps on the 190D.

When you're landing (if you feel the need).  

Unless you're 1 on 1 with another 190 you are in a position of pure desperation to think about using flaps. Save one specific example.  If you're zoom climbing or "roping" a bogie, deploying flaps can either delay the stall briefly, or help you recover from the stall.  Other than that in an arena environment, you're in trouble.

[Ruah]

there are only 3 flap settings on a 190 and as such I never use it.  If I am at flap speeds, I am either taking the shot or working on how to gain maximum speed asap.

[pervert]

Flaps don't really help much unless you are maxed out in the vert you can use full rudder to pop the plane over while popping the flaps. In a straight up luftberry on the deck you will in fact do better using no flaps.

Thats being said they are not useless, I do use them a lot but only when I have my opponent in a bad situation to start with. Flying a Dora well is about getting your opponent in that situation, if it looks like I am matching a guys spit in a turn I am just not in the way he is turning, that would be impossible.

Usually I match an opponent's turn radius by using slow roll in the vertical to match his turn in the horizontal, see my rubbish illustration by the time he tries to yank his plane vertical for the shot he has burnt all his E turning and cannot get guns, you can see roughly that the red plane is using mostly turn elevator throughout the move and I a elevator for a short but sharp period at the start to get my nose vertical then used the Dora's precise roll qualities match his turn, note I do not want to be in guns at this stage I am staying out of guns and tempting the spit to keep on turning and stay slightly above him timed correctly I then fall on him, once I have a plane trapped in this situation at an alt disadvantage and constantly turning through threat of my guns he is never able to gain enough time to regain the energy to maneuver, the Dora has a very powerful engine that few can match in the vertical. The reason most Dora pilots have a problem shooting down cons in a straight up fight is because they let their opponent get back his energy by leaving 5 minutes between each pass   



Seen from the top I can sit inside a better turning planes radius conserve more energy and stall out above him.

[pervert]

And boo there were a good few films if you search for them on the bbs but I don't know whats happening with 4shared, a lot of people complaining about malware attempts and now it seems it wants you open an account with them just to download a file. I am going to transfer my films off there and find a new hosting site just have not had the time.

[FLS]

I understand this in general though not sure if this applies to the Dora. Are you saying that one notch of flaps will increase the turn radius in a similar concept as the P-51D?

Boo

I expect you mean decrease turn radius. Flaps can increase turn rate and decrease turn radius for a given speed but some aircraft like the Zeke turn faster without flaps. You can't use flaps in the 190D like you can in the P-51D and expect the same performance. They are different aircraft. You have to learn how flaps affect your particular aircraft.

[mthrockmor]

This has been a great discussion and exactly what I was looking for! Pervet, one of these days I am going to find that grungy bar down the street from your home, buy you a months worth of beer and you are going to have to spill your guts about the Dora! 

Boo

[Murdr]

A flaps out Dora can give a P-51D a pretty good turn fight so I'd expect it to be similar against some P-47's and others of their ilk.

Dora vs Pony is a very fun match-up    IMO be wary of dropping into a Dora vs D-11 luftbery without a good positional advantage to start with.  In my experience a skilled pilot is more likely found in that variant than in the others, and it seems like in general the D-11's tighter circle can gain ground before the Dora's faster turn rate can be taken advantage of.

I think with the Dora, relative pilot skill is a big factor in choosing whether to "mix it up" because it is outclassed by so many other fighters in sustained turns.  The small opportunities of gaining angles solutions are so specific and brief it's hard to say "Use flaps in a Dora when..." because it's splitting hairs in reading flight geometry of that fight.  Hence I don't recommend even though I've done it often.

[FLS]

Here's a film with some flaps use in a 190D. We're not fighting just flying to position. Lepape2 used his film of this for a bit in Hunt or Prey.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?lpbntzj49o95v1b

[FLS]

BTW if you want to watch the flaps use F3, padlock Lepape2, zoom in and note the airspeeds as well as when the flaps come out and go back in. If you just want to watch Lepape2 throw the jug around use the cockpit view, full screen view, and padlock Lepape2 then zoom in until it looks natural.

To padlock a friendly icon use ctrl tab to toggle friendly padlock. Use tab to select Lepape2, he's at my 6 at the start, and F11 to padlock. I use trackIR so there aren't any saved views in the film.

[BaldEagl]

IMO be wary of dropping into a Dora vs D-11 luftbery without a good positional advantage to start with.  In my experience a skilled pilot is more likely found in that variant than in the others, and it seems like in general the D-11's tighter circle can gain ground before the Dora's faster turn rate can be taken advantage of.

That's why I said some P-47's.  I was thinking specifically about the D-11 and to a lesser extent the M when I typed that.  Not that the M will turn that well but it's got the HP to give it options.