Lancasters Turnfighting?

[Mace2004]

A fully loaded Lanc @ 72,000 lbs has a wing loading of 55 lbs. For comparison a P-38 is 53 lbs/sqft. A lightly loaded Lanc @ 45,000 lbs has a wing loading of 34 lbs which is similar to an F6F. I've read the elevators and ailerons were easy to move from 100 - 290 MPH. Granted it won't handle like a fighter but it seems like it should be pretty maneuverable when it's not loaded with bombs.

Wing loading is not directly related specifically to maneuvering performance. Yes, it is definitely related to turn and climb performance but those are many other factors that enter into maneuvering.  For instance, the 109's slats have a positive effect on turn performance but can be detrimental to maneuvering performance as they pop in and out, particularly in rolling maneuvers, and degrade flying quality.  Maneuvering performance, or agility, relates to the rates at which changes can be made to an aircraft's flight path and flying qualities.  How quickly can an aircraft reverse from a right to left turn for instance?  What is the aircraft's stick force per G?  What compensation must be applied by the pilot for a certain maneuver (countering adverse yaw for instance)?  A good example is the Beaver in the landing pattern.  You must use full lateral yoke and then wait about 2 seconds before the airplane actually starts to roll.  Then, you have to "capture" the desired roll angle by going full opposite yoke to arrest the roll.  The airplane has a low wing loading and can turn very well but its difficult to say it would be very good at ACM.

[Peyton]

Given that fully laden Lancs were able to pull the 'corkscrew' evasion maneuver, I really doubt the Lanc in question here should have lost its wings.  Lancs were rolled and looped successfully.  Just because it is a four engined bomber doesn't mean it couldn't do anything but fly sedate and level.

+1...The RAF heavy bomber�s standard evasive maneuver enabled it to continue on course while presenting an attacking fighter with an extremely difficult target. This maneuver is performed any time the attack is from the rear to middle of the craft.

How to:

1. The pilot (originally cruising at 200-225 mph) opens his throttle and banks at 45 degrees to make a diving turn to port (because the enemy aircraft is on the port � reverse the maneuver if enemy is on starboard.); descending through 1,000 ft in six seconds, the bomber reaches a speed of nearly 300 mph. After the 1,000 ft descent, the pilot pulls the aircraft into a climb, still turning to port.

3. He reverse the turn, halfway through the climb which has caused his speed to fall sharply, possibly forcing the attacking night fighter to overshoot.

4. Regaining his original altitude, with speed down to 185 mph and still in the starboard turn, the pilot pushes the aircraft down into another dive.

5. Picking up speed in the dive, he descends through 500 ft before reversing the direction of the turn.

6. If the fighter is still on his tail, he stand by to repeat the maneuver. The physical effort required by the pilot has been compared with that of an oarsman pulling hard in a boat race.

[USAF2010]

I've got the answer:


One spitfire = One merlin engine


One lancaster = Four merlin engines

As to say One lancaster =  Four Spits

Simple, Lancaster has the ability of four spitfires   


-INCOMING

 

[Brooke]

An unloaded Lanc can likely pull a lot more than 3 g's.  Civilian aircraft without even a utility rating can pull 3 g's, and even they can do some aerobatics (such as Tony Levier in planes like the Shrike business plane).  As has been said, Lancs have been looped and rolled.  American bombers, too, have done things like that.  Unloaded bombers and C-47's and the like could possibly outturn fighter aircraft under certain conditions.  They have low wing loading without carrying bombs or cargo and can sometimes also fly very slowly.  As Mace says, turn radius or rate is not a function only of wing loading, stall speed, etc., but as a general trend, the lower the wing loading and lower the stall speed, the smaller the turn radius will be.

[W7LPNRICK]

I saw Cobia kill several fighters in a row in a Lanc, spits, La-7, and a Jug all in the same fight. We were in a deep canyon, he has individual throttles and plays with them a lot. That's nothing though...watch him in an A-20...wow 

[Tupac]

An unloaded Lanc can likely pull a lot more than 3 g's.  Civilian aircraft without even a utility rating can pull 3 g's, and even they can do some aerobatics (such as Tony Levier in planes like the Shrike business plane).  As has been said, Lancs have been looped and rolled.  American bombers, too, have done things like that.  Unloaded bombers and C-47's and the like could possibly outturn fighter aircraft under certain conditions.  They have low wing loading without carrying bombs or cargo and can sometimes also fly very slowly.  As Mace says, turn radius or rate is not a function only of wing loading, stall speed, etc., but as a general trend, the lower the wing loading and lower the stall speed, the smaller the turn radius will be.

Its a category in the W&B envelope. In my 172 I *think* it is 3.8gs in the normal category and 4.2 in the utility category. (if i am operating under 2k pounds and within a certain envelope i am in the utility category) I have no desire to find out if those numbers are accurate, though. (plus it's damn hard to do 4gs in a 172 because its so stately)

[PR3D4TOR]

From the cockpit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIEg27PNL5U

Pretty cool.

[Midway]

I saw Cobia kill several fighters in a row in a Lanc, spits, La-7, and a Jug all in the same fight. We were in a deep canyon, he has individual throttles and plays with them a lot. That's nothing though...watch him in an A-20...wow  

Pffft, Cobia....  Makes good target practice.  Reminds me of the movie scene where the Kung Fu A20 guy does all these crazy moves yelling "heeeya chow whoop" in front of the Spitfire guy and the Spitfire guy whips out the cannons and pulls the trigger....boom.

Then I hear on 200..."but you're in a Spitfire and have cannons"....and I say as I'm flying away looking at the falling bomber wreckage... "I know."  

[Karnak]

If a Spitfire did, somehow, find itself being out turned by a Lancaster all the Spitfire has to do is go up.  There is no way a Lanc will follow a Spit up.

[cobia38]

Pffft, Cobia....  Makes good target practice.  Reminds me of the movie scene where the Kung Fu A20 guy does all these crazy moves yelling "heeeya chow whoop" in front of the Spitfire guy and the Spitfire guy whips out the cannons and pulls the trigger....boom.

Then I hear on 200..."but you're in a Spitfire and have cannons"....and I say as I'm flying away looking at the falling bomber wreckage... "I know."  

    lol i never once yelled unfair on 200 about you being in a spit with cannon,but if you like i have plenty of films of said A-20 downing your precious spit 

[W7LPNRICK]

    lol i never once yelled unfair on 200 about you being in a spit with cannon,but if you like i have plenty of films of said A-20 downing your precious spit 

  Thanx for not sitting this one out. I saw it with my own 2 eye-balls...

[Seanaldinho]

The Grob 103 I fly is rated for +5.4 Gs and -2.4Gs And Ive gotten it to +4 and -1.5

[morfiend]

    lol i never once yelled unfair on 200 about you being in a spit with cannon,but if you like i have plenty of films of said A-20 downing your precious spit 

  Bazinga!     



   

[Midway]

  Cobia38  

[nrshida]

From the cockpit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIEg27PNL5U

Pretty cool.

Fantastic video, thank you.


I once went to Derwent Reservoir where the Dambusters raid was practised. It was the approach to the dam that was the frightening part, let alone the small size of the target and the no room for error business.