HO Philosphy

[SuperDud]

Well, Jimson, not that your respect is important to me, Mitt happened to be a perfect example, not for political reasons, but for the fact that he IS a bully. To hold someone down and cut off their hair isn't a prank, it's a dastardly act. GAMES are not only or even firstly about winning, they're about sportsmanship, skill and talent, not necessarily in that order. Hoing as a primary offense shows not only a lack of skill or talent, but a total disregard for sportsmanship. I would rather lose a good fight to a skilled opponent than win one by a cheap HO. I have the respect of quite a few of the best in this game, not for my skill(or lack of it) but for my attitude and my deep regard for GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP. I don't expect respect, i do my best to earn it. So if you're a backer of the Mittster, sorry if the truth offended you. Also, I do tend to go head on at my opponent, as, IMHO, it tends to make quite a few react first, giving me an opportunity to see their maneuver and respond accordingly.

Wrong.... games are about fun. Having "skill" in this game is meaningless.

[EVZ]

Yeppers, the Politics of HO. The Politics of the HO is to convince all new players that a game rule exists which dosen't. Then proceded to use this rule to abuse them at will within the game and in this forum before they realise, even the mightiest of the chosen fail before it's simplicity.

Petty well put ... HO - Philosophy, Politics, how about Psychology?

The HO is an aggressive maneuver, and is employed by both Noob and Veteran Players. I would postulate that the ANTI-HO whiners are less aggressive personalities seeking to attach a STIGMA to aggressive behavior and restrict the amount of it they encounter ... There are certainly Skilled (and well adjusted) Pilots out there who DON'T complain about HOers, they simply TAKE THE OPPROTUNITY presented by a HO attack to gain an advantage and proceed to fight their own fight. It's been my experience that many of the ANTI-HO whiners aren't particularly skilled, they have simply learned one or two attack patterns which they repeatedly employ in hopes of encountering players who don't understand the formula for their maneuver. The Whiners lack the spontaneity and improvisation that are inspired by aggression and seek to deny others those capabilities.

[Oldman731]

The Whiners lack the spontaneity and improvisation that are inspired by aggression and seek to deny others those capabilities.

* stares at hook *

* swims away *

- oldman

[bustr]

EVZ,

Are we seasoned citizens making fun of a "Lord of the Flys" soap opra moment these dorks are using to bond with?

I've been informed "Whining" about getting beat in anything now days is the New Equivalent of what we called back in the day: "Sucking it up and acting like a Man".

Wonder what they put on BooBoo's these days? By the sounds of this post, something flower scented from the feminin products side of the Drug Store.

 

[coombz]

itt - scrubs defend and rationalize their lack of skill

gg

[Wiley]

itt - scrubs defend and rationalize their lack of skill

gg

Wait, who are you talking about?  The guys that face shoot anything they can, or the guys that put themselves in front of the enemy's guns but feel they should be 'home free' because of the orientation of their plane?

Wiley.

[Rob52240]

I try to avoid it (unless I were in a 110 or p-38) but things happen.  I get irritated when I try to avoid it but the enemy keeps turning in but not enough to complain out loud. 

[Scotch]

This thread is funny.

[mthrockmor]

What Guppy said.

What if we had a rule that when you get towered (die) you cannot reup for 1 hour. How would this effect the game play? I think one of the first things to go out the window would be the HO. Flying would become more timid, you wouldn't up in the face of a horde, etc. I am not advocating this though it gets to the point. In the real world I'm sure some ho'ing happened. I've been told that Chuck Yeager was shot down with a HO shot over Europe. That being said, it was not common. Balance that with Col Eric Hartmann, who shot down over 300 enemy planes, yet in roughly 2/3 of his engagements (sorties where he faced enemy planes) he shot down no one. This means to some degree that the ubber fighter pilot of all fighter pilots used a great deal of caution in his tactics. He made statements about seeing the enemy, being disadvantaged and flying home to fight another day.

Of course this is a game.

The HO was a rarely used tactic in real life and for many, myself included, I dislike the arcade play and prefer realism. The HO shot in general is just offensive to my senses as a scarf wearing, cartoon fighter ace of ill repute. It's the arcade version I dislike. At times it just happens. As I fly AH, rarely but it does. For some sticks, mostly newer ones it is the best way they can get their guns on the red plane. It might be the only way they can do it. They have very few ideas beyond a HO and have never been trained on the most basic manuevers.

That sums it up for me.

Boo

[coombz]

the guys that put themselves in front of the enemy's guns but feel they should be 'home free' because of the orientation of their plane?

I don't think anyone really feels that way - in MA or scenario combat at least, if you don't make every effort to avoid taking a shot to the face then you're doing it wrong

What I was (obviously) pointing out is that this thread is full of weak excuses for the lazy and unskilled. Your comment above just contributes to that. Players who are bad at dogfighting/ACM are defending their crappy flying and desperate attempts to score kills without needing to use their brains or have any skill, with comments like "It was an oft-used tactic in real life", "Everyone HOs me so I'm just returning the favour", "It's the way bad players can get a chance to kill the good ones" and "It's their fault for being in front of me".

This is all well and good if that's the way you want to play the game (personally I can't even understand why someone would subscribe just to fly like that, but to each his own I guess), but it's just lazy and means you'll never improve. I'm a below average fighter pilot but I at least try to get better at the game and don't just fly around with my brain turned off face shooting everything. What we see in this thread is players who suck at the game, don't care to get any better, and are rationalizing their crappy playstyle to make themselves feel better because they know everyone with a modicum of skill holds them in contempt. And deep down, they probably hold themselves in contempt too, otherwise why the attempts to defend HOing and make it out to be something other than what it is? ;o

[Debrody]

EVZ showing up... shining happens... awesomeness floating in the air...
 

[LCADolby]

It's been my experience that many of the ANTI-HO whiners aren't particularly skilled, they have simply learned one or two attack patterns which they repeatedly employ in hopes of encountering players who don't understand the formula for their maneuver. The Whiners lack the spontaneity and improvisation that are inspired by aggression and seek to deny others those capabilities.

When do you fly? What is your ingame handle? And how much of a spanking do I give you?

[Wiley]

I don't think anyone really feels that way - in MA or scenario combat at least, if you don't make every effort to avoid taking a shot to the face then you're doing it wrong

Sure they do.  Otherwise, why are they complaining about being HOed?  Who else is to blame for putting them in front of the enemy's guns?

What I was (obviously) pointing out is that this thread is full of weak excuses for the lazy and unskilled.

In an online game, that describes the majority of players.

Your comment above just contributes to that. Players who are bad at dogfighting/ACM are defending their crappy flying and desperate attempts to score kills without needing to use their brains or have any skill, with comments like "It was an oft-used tactic in real life", "Everyone HOs me so I'm just returning the favour", "It's the way bad players can get a chance to kill the good ones"

They're all points.  Not ones I happen to believe carry much weight, but they're there.

and "It's their fault for being in front of me".

That, however, carries a lot of weight.  If someone HOs me, who do I get to blame for putting the plane in the guy's gunsight?  I'm pretty sure I'm the only one controlling my plane.

This is all well and good if that's the way you want to play the game (personally I can't even understand why someone would subscribe just to fly like that, but to each his own I guess), but it's just lazy and means you'll never improve.

What is lazy about not giving the guy a decent HO shot in the first place?  It's up to you to avoid enemy fire, regardless of where it comes from.

The HO detractors often seem to be saying 'I'm an awesome cartoon pile-it, as long as the enemy doesn't HO me.'  ...Well maybe you should devote some of that time you put in learning ACM to 'avoiding the HO'.

I'm a below average fighter pilot but I at least try to get better at the game and don't just fly around with my brain turned off face shooting everything. What we see in this thread is players who suck at the game, don't care to get any better, and are rationalizing their crappy playstyle to make themselves feel better because they know everyone with a modicum of skill holds them in contempt. And deep down, they probably hold themselves in contempt too, otherwise why the attempts to defend HOing and make it out to be something other than what it is? ;o

The way I see it, the people whining about being HOed put their plane in the wrong place at the wrong time, and are seeking justification for being shot down.

Wiley.

[Debrody]

chill wiley...

I never (or very rarely in a ganged situation) seen hoing those who can give me a good fight in 1v1. I think its a decent marker of who is using it.
I dont really like coombzy but i have to respect his way of thinking.

[Krusty]

Boo, head-on attacks were very common, especially for Luftwaffe pilots with their cannon weaponry. You ought to know that, loving the LW rides so much.

Fact of the matter is, the HO is a perfectly normal attack.

Just a HO by itself means nothing. You can't condemn anyone for making a HO run at any point.

However, if you establish a greater pattern it can indicate a larger measure of skill (or lack thereof). If the ONLY thing somebody does is HO and run, to the exclusion of all other manuevers or skills, then yes you may begin to judge them as poorly skilled or lacking in abilities.

Just because somebody HOs doesn't mean this, though. It's if they HO to the exception of all else and never do anything but.


In short, a HO is nothing. It doesn't mean anything by itself (out of context) and it can't be judged as moral/immoral, skilled/skill-less. It's all folks trying to dictate to others how they ought to fly based on arbitrary made-up rules.