Author Topic: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234  (Read 15311 times)

Offline FLS

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2012, 04:07:48 PM »
You did not read all that I posted then.
Nearly all documents after a certain time frame do say doesn't never installed & so on.
I pointed this out that later authors did a complete 180 from their first publications with their very own same titled books in later editions.


Lyric you might address your assumption that a later work, written 70 years after the war ended, is more accurate than the information gathered at the war's end. If the later books contained documents proving that guns were never mounted on any 234B's then you'd have something but the books simply make unsupported statements. I mixed up Price and Brown earlier when I said Price investigated jets for the RAF., Price was RAF and did interview pilots after the war along with Jeff Ethell but it was Brown who had the job of investigating the German jet program for the RAF in 1945 and he actually landed on an active German airbase that flew Arado 234B's in Denmark by mistake, it was supposed to be captured already, and took their surrender. He also flew 7 different Arado 234B's to evaluate it's performance and to ferry them to England. He talked to everybody he could, pilots, ground crew, designers, and manufacturers, involved in the jet program.  He's not a random source that can be easily dismissed by unsupported statements from writers who weren't there. Several sources state that some Arado 234B's had guns and a few state that none did. So far we don't have proof of either case.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2012, 04:42:36 PM »
If the very same book by the very same author has gone to the trouble to revise the information with a correction then they had information that made them change it. Any other reasoning would be illogical.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2012, 04:44:34 PM »
If the very same book by the very same author has gone to the trouble to revise the information with a correction then they had information that made them change it. Any other reasoning would be illogical.
Or a lack of information supporting his previous position?
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Offline FLS

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2012, 06:43:09 PM »
If the very same book by the very same author has gone to the trouble to revise the information with a correction then they had information that made them change it. Any other reasoning would be illogical.

That's great. So what is this information?  Why not document the changes from the previous edition? How do we know the authors changed it and not an editor or typesetter? My point is that you assume it's true but you actually know nothing about the reason it was changed. Brown has flown more Arado's and probably talked to more people directly involved with them than anyone else writing about them. What does logic suggest about that?

Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #139 on: July 17, 2012, 12:33:10 PM »
the 20mm's should indeed be removed, especially when you see how it is exploited with the F3 view...

Exploited in F3, NOT. The real jet had a rear view para-scope that worked. Ours does not.   :old:
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #140 on: July 17, 2012, 02:37:33 PM »
That's great. So what is this information?  Why not document the changes from the previous edition? How do we know the authors changed it and not an editor or typesetter? My point is that you assume it's true but you actually know nothing about the reason it was changed. Brown has flown more Arado's and probably talked to more people directly involved with them than anyone else writing about them. What does logic suggest about that?

A typesetter that changes an authors book gets canned and the book gets reprinted. The point is that you are not accepting the fact that the a/c never had the guns in the first place. Without evidence to the contrary other than wishful thinking the guns in AH need to be removed.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #141 on: July 17, 2012, 04:30:54 PM »
A typesetter that changes an authors book gets canned and the book gets reprinted. The point is that you are not accepting the fact that the a/c never had the guns in the first place. Without evidence to the contrary other than wishful thinking the guns in AH need to be removed.

The actual point is that the reason the authors changed the text is not specified. You can imagine whatever you like, it doesn't alter the fact that the text changed without explanation.

Offline Denniss

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #142 on: July 18, 2012, 05:14:03 AM »
Authors/companies changing their book(s) to reflect recent research are better than those who don't care.
Also it's quite common to get no information about what's changed in a newer revision of a book.

If authors won't incorporate new research into recent work we'd still live with MG 151 as cowl guns in the Bf 109K or other gimmick invented by authors of the 1940/1050s despited having access to wartime personnell or material.

Offline FLS

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #143 on: July 18, 2012, 07:18:06 AM »
Authors/companies changing their book(s) to reflect recent research are better than those who don't care.
Also it's quite common to get no information about what's changed in a newer revision of a book.

If authors won't incorporate new research into recent work we'd still live with MG 151 as cowl guns in the Bf 109K or other gimmick invented by authors of the 1940/1050s despited having access to wartime personnell or material.

Theoretical arguments are fun but it doesn't change the fact that none of you know why the information was changed in one book.

Offline lyric1

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #144 on: November 29, 2019, 12:27:55 PM »
Wonder why this AR-234 didn't shoot back?

https://imgur.com/hi3IDWw?fbclid=IwAR39VUT5hdSjBsYegQxfG6Ad_AtY3ru7jKi_EDgYEYy-_vDheuZcVeSlAlw

Because they had no guns to do it! :neener:

Offline FLS

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #145 on: November 29, 2019, 12:35:04 PM »
Wonder why this AR-234 didn't shoot back?
...

Video says the pilot had already bailed out. That usually makes it difficult to operate any aircraft systems.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #146 on: November 29, 2019, 12:39:53 PM »
Holy necrobump, Batman!
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Online waystin2

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #147 on: November 30, 2019, 08:53:44 AM »
Holy necrobump, Batman!
I was looking for my picture lol!  :rofl
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #148 on: November 30, 2019, 08:05:42 PM »
Video says the pilot had already bailed out. That usually makes it difficult to operate any aircraft systems.

Bailed out of a perfectly good airplane that was UNARMED!
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Remove the fantasy - Ar-234
« Reply #149 on: December 01, 2019, 06:40:33 PM »
Video says the pilot had already bailed out. That usually makes it difficult to operate any aircraft systems.
I lol'd.
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