Field & Town Ack Down - Wish revisited

[bustr]

If you want to reset any one of our giant maps. This is not the way to acheive it along with the large scale conflict that attends the group trying to roll the bases to reset the map. You would eventualy loose your momentum and edge by virute of numbers depleated as rear guards versus resetting the large map. The defenders would have a better position by organising themselves to prey upon your rear guards as strike hoards to perform quick recaptures behind you as you tried to march across their territory.

The other danger is loosing the interest of your map resetting group by depleating their passion for mounting up and taking the next feild while garrisoned waiting out each captured feild's ack to come back up before safely moving on. You run the real danger of your map reset deing to your group being pinned down repeatedly in boring counter stalemate attacks which eventuly will grind your map reset to a stalled halt. 

Your focus would become defensive based on holding and protecting ground rather than taking ground with the real danger of achieving only stalemate as odds would dictate some of your captures would be recaptured behind you as player numbers in your rear guards decreased. In a microcosim you would discover why it's hard to conquer large empires streatched across vast territories where you have to garrison every town and city you capture before moving on to the next. This is one of the reasons the mongols flattened almost every town and city they attacked while killing much of the population. I think Hitech agrees with the mongols by regenerating ack upon capture.

Small maps. This might be a worthwhile addition to promote strategic counter moves which wouldn't grind to a halt against the scale of the map like a large map would. Consider that the scale of the map controls the efforts of the limited numbers of players. And just how easy it is for 400 players to dissapere on one of our large maps versus the small ones.

[icepac]

I would like the ack to come up under it's own timer regardless of whether field changed hands.

If you are an attacker and want ack to defend your newly captured field, then don't kill the ack and it will do it's job.

[Kingpin]

Buster, I think you might be misreading this.  What I'm suggesting doesn't require any long-term garrisoning of towns as you use in your example.  I'm suggesting an "all ack down" period of about 10 minutes at a newly captured field.  This isn't going to create a huge chain of fields that needs to be guarded for extended periods.

The idea is simply meant to extend the battle over a newly captured field by having a brief period where that field may be vulnerable to counter-attack/re-capture.  It doesn't make the process of actually capturing fields any harder.  It just adds that brief period where some defensive-mindedness may be needed to hold it.  As it is, once a field is captured, the base-rolling horde typically just all land as a group and move on the next hording field.  With this ack down period in effect, they can still do that if they wish, but risk someone recapturing their field.  Essentially I'm talking about adding about 10 minutes of defense to the process, not something that is likely going to grind into a stalemate as you suggest.

Even in an extreme case, where this short "all ack down time" might actually create a back-and-forth battle of recapturing of a given field, I seriously think it is not a "stalemate" that anyone is going to complain about.  It's more likely going to be a really exiting fight going on -- a fight that players with a variety of play styles could all enjoy.  The "base-takers" on both sides get something out of it (as they are fighting over capturing a base), the "defenders" have a little more time to rally and get involved, and even the "furballers" who don't care about the disposition of the field may have a nice protracted fight to join into.

I don't see this happening very often, and I certainly don't see it turning into the slow-paced stalemate you describe.  Actually, I see this potentially creating some epic battles.  I can't see how something that potentially creates an epic, drawn-out battle every once in a while is bad for the game.

The "instantly-popping side-switching ack" upon field capture is very gamey in my opinion, and worse, it contributes to the smash-and-grab vs. whack a mole game game play that we have.  Addressing that with something as simple as an ack setting that keeps a field "in play" for another 10 minutes is supposed to be an easy idea aimed at creating better fights in the main arena.

<S>

[caldera]

+1 absolutely

it was like this for about a week after the new towns came out, because there wasn't even any ack in the towns at all, remember!

I remember that and it was a blast!  There should be zero ack in the towns and a crapload more at the base.  These days, it's mostly cap and vulch before they even bother touching the town.  No ack in town means a free for all melee!  Oh and make it so all buildings have to be flat too.

+1 for keeping normal respawn time as if base didnt change hands...just like hangers.
If the new owners want guns up faster, resupply the base.

And +1 to this.  Guns should need to be resupplied, not pop up like a jack in the box.

[bustr]

Ten minutes for a mission group following the momentum of their common goal in the MA is equal to a life time of patience staying interested in the mission goal of resetting the map.

Our giant maps force that kind of smash and move on to the next feild strategy to reset a map the size of Trinity. You should talk to players like the Free Birds about their 10 years of experience with player motivation in missions and what it takes to keep them focused when they target resetting a map. That ten minutes will bleed off and diffuse players to other parts of the map. It's a canard right here to answer but, if they are interested in resetting the map they will return. Years of experience proves otherwise. Once they are being entertained by a new focus it takes forever to get them back into a mission. The MA is like herding cats unless you have the right bag of Kitty Kibble and know how to use it.

Yes you will have some interesting counter attack fighting. But, you will have the unintended consiquence of boring the 80% needed in missions to tip the force projection each time in favor of achieving a map reset. Or refocusing them into a furballing and GV pitched fight defensive mentality. Which sounds like your real aim in asking for this.

You can always Gin up that kind of a fight by following these steps.

1. - get 2 to 3 freinds to follow you jabo to an enemy arifeild that has a GV spawn to your airfield and vice-versa.
2. - drop their GV hanger and radar. Vulch any uppers.
3. - keep returning no matter how out numbered you become.
4. - when their GV hanger comes back up they will retaliate back to your airfeild along with the furball at theirs.
5. - pray your countrymen have watched the map and see this great whizzing fest you have picked.

This is why POTW never lacks for a fight. We pick fights or take the feild if they don't up to respond. Or do you want all of this along with the 20 guys from the mission to have your back? Thats what the 10 minute bit will get you.

[LilMak]

Ten minutes for a mission group following the momentum of their common goal in the MA is equal to a life time of patience staying interested in the mission goal of resetting the map.

Our giant maps force that kind of smash and move on to the next feild strategy to reset a map the size of Trinity. You should talk to players like the Free Birds about their 10 years of experience with player motivation in missions and what it takes to keep them focused when they target resetting a map. That ten minutes will bleed off and diffuse players to other parts of the map. It's a canard right here to answer but, if they are interested in resetting the map they will return. Years of experience proves otherwise. Once they are being entertained by a new focus it takes forever to get them back into a mission. The MA is like herding cats unless you have the right bag of Kitty Kibble and know how to use it.

Yes you will have some interesting counter attack fighting. But, you will have the unintended consiquence of boring the 80% needed in missions to tip the force projection each time in favor of achieving a map reset. Or refocusing them into a furballing and GV pitched fight defensive mentality. Which sounds like your real aim in asking for this.

You can always Gin up that kind of a fight by following these steps.

1. - get 2 to 3 freinds to follow you jabo to an enemy arifeild that has a GV spawn to your airfield and vice-versa.
2. - drop their GV hanger and radar. Vulch any uppers.
3. - keep returning no matter how out numbered you become.
4. - when their GV hanger comes back up they will retaliate back to your airfeild along with the furball at theirs.
5. - pray your countrymen have watched the map and see this great whizzing fest you have picked.

This is why POTW never lacks for a fight. We pick fights or take the feild if they don't up to respond. Or do you want all of this along with the 20 guys from the mission to have your back? Thats what the 10 minute bit will get you.

So you're saying that this is a bad idea because hordelings have a short attention span?

I support normal ack respawn times for captured bases. Resuply if you want them up faster.

[R 105]

 The short attention span has a lot of truth in it. My cousin Larry use to own a big machine shop and he would go from one area to the next and each time he stopped to do something Larry would light a cigarette and laid it down. He would forget all about that cigarette go to another area of the shop and light another one and lay it down and so on. His Dad who also worked there would follow Larry around and smoke his cigarettes so he never had to pay for his own.

 Base captures are a lot like Larry and his Dad. Once the horde comes in and takes a base they move on to another one and no one ever defends the base that was just taken. So just follow them around like Larry's Dad and take them back while the horde is off lighting up another base lol. Maybe the ack staying down for what ever time it stays down would be a good thing and folks would have to resupply that base and defend it while they do that. This could make for some good fights but the Larry and his Dad Principal would also make resetting a map much harder.

[Noir]

I like this analogy 

[Hazard69]

unfortunately, he has commented on the idea in the past, and IIRC, he didn't seem to like the idea of the defenders being able to just hide a goon or m3 somewhere to steal a base back real quick... i, like you, don't see the problem, but ohwell..

Why not just make troops have the same requirement as supplies? They have to have been launched from an different base from the one being (re)captured to have any effect.

Oh, and +1 to the ack staying down for a while . I always thought it should take some time, for the conquerers to man their own defenses.

Actually, we could make it a sort of frontline base? U see the base (on clipboard) as green when it was yours, it turns grey once enemy troops are in (and ack is down), it turns red once the enemy has completed its capture and setup their defenses. While its grey (the 5-10min window) its a limbo state where the country icon would change to indicate who owns/has captured it, but the gry colour indicates its still a sort-of no mans land, until either side can establish its dominance and hold it till its no longer 'grayed out'. 

 

[bustr]

Any of the large maps you already dislike. This will make you 100x bored with them after your first blush of excitement over actualy getting a change like this out of hitech wears off by the end of the first tour it's in force. Then you will be stuck with these large maps you hate longer by lowering your chances of reseting them due to the follow up stalemating of each capture. Granted even if you are the followup stalemating to vTard missions holding up the map reset adfinitum. Eventualy this will get stale and they will have come up with another tardling thing around this to irritate you with requiring a hoard that dissaperes when the deed is done. And you will be left with Large maps that are harder to reset.

Then you will be in here complaining about how hard it is to reset Large maps and Hitech needs to shorten their rotation cycle becasue you are bored. You gents always think up something that sends a tingle up your collective legs to fix your short term bordom or problems and want Hitech to use it to tingle everyone elses leg in the game becasue leg tingling is a good thing says Martha Stewart. None of you ever think up all the downsides and unintended consiquences which means shooting holes in your own idea to see if it can float in spite of the holes over the long haul as a good thing for the larger game community. Not just your immediate bordom or problem with the game.

Instead leaving it up to Hitech to beat his head against a wall of your bordom, short term problems, good intentions and tingling legs to sink it for you. Using the spectrum of his greater experience at having to shoot holes in his own ideas to see if they will float well enough to work in his game for everyone.

This time next year most of the vTards will be fighter jocks and have moved on from mindless base hoarding to telling everyone how weak their ACM is on ch200. A number of them have been showing some ACM skillz lately that take time with a trainer or in the DA to learn. What are you going to do when they can both hoard a base and kick your collective kesters? Come up with a short term fix to handicapp them for their youthful reflexes and present that to Hitech for codeing into the game?

[SPKmes]

+1 to this Idea .... I for one would form a squad just for defense ( well I would have a group of like minded guys hanging around me...I wouldn't force any to play my game).... That is my cup of tea anyway... I feel it would allow more of a balance in game play..... sure the maps might take longer to take but honestly the smash and grab of the moment is really quite hilarious....

[bustr]

You will be back in here in 6 months asking for something else to be changed to make the stalemated large maps easier to win the war and cycle them faster. But, you will require Hitech to tie one hand behind his back and hop on one foot to do it while not touching this previously asked for sacred cow.

This is any change for the sake of seeing something changed even if you have to come back and have something changed later to address the unintended consiquences of wanting any kind of change today.

[kvuo75]

I'm looking at it purely as new combat options..  being able to sneak troops in, or staying on station waiting to kill the sneak troops would be a NEW thing added to the gameplay. it doesn't take away. it adds.  

[kvuo75]

by the way I'm not a war-winner or base taker.. I think you'd have to go back 18 tours or so to even find my last base capture.

I also don't complain about being on the same map.. they're all the same to me. if we got stagnated on mindanao or beta2,  forever, I'd be fine.

[SPKmes]

You will be back in here in 6 months asking for something else to be changed to make the stalemated large maps easier to win the war and cycle them faster. But, you will require Hitech to tie one hand behind his back and hop on one foot to do it while not touching this previously asked for sacred cow.

This is any change for the sake of seeing something changed even if you have to come back and have something changed later to address the unintended consiquences of wanting any kind of change today.

Was this in reply to me? ....