Bf-109F-4B Fighter-Bomber

[pangea]

What we need, Bf109wise, is the Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS.

If we got the Bf109G-6/AS that would even give us a late Bf109G-6 in addition to our early Bf109G-6.  That means it might have a later canopy and would have the 30mm option that some people miss having on the Bf109G-6.

The AS versions of the G-6 and G-14 would be nice additions.

[Butcher]

The Bf109G-6 is intended to be an early model, like the Spitfires Mk V and Mk IX, and thus the later options aren't appropriate for it.  Remember, this predates the ability for loadouts to be limited by the person setting it up.  The Spitfire Mk V lost 120 rounds of cannon ammo and engine performance and the Spitfire Mk IX lost the .50 cal, bomb and rocket options for the same reason.

Unfortunately AH does not have the ability to select different engines in the hangar.

I agree with Corky on adding some late war varients like another spitfire and 109-AS series

[Karnak]

The only additions I really think are needed for those lines are the Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS and Seafire Mk III.

[Krusty]

I think there's also a big gap between the 109E4 and the 109F4. It could be filled adequately by either the 109E7 (better option IMO) or the 109f2. Their performance wasn't that far off from each other, but it did push the speed advantage back to Germany's favor vs the SpitVb, if only by a few mph.

[Denniss]

The E-7 is not a single bit faster than the E-4 unless you want to model it as E-7/N or the GM-1 equipped E-7/NZ. Even with derated DB 601N the E-7/N should be ~15 km/h faster. The F-2 with derated 601N was specified at 595 km/h and without restriction at 615 km/h. It could do 565 km/h at 9km while the E-series (601A) maxed out with this speed at 5km.

[Krusty]

The E-4 was powered by default by the DB601A engine. The E-7 by default was already powered by the DB601N. There really wasn't an E-7/N, in the sense that N was redundant, and that was the standard.

Also of note: The reason the E-7 and F-2 were similar in performance was that they both used the exact same engine. The F-2 had a different supercharger, though, resulting in different power curves. The 109F-2 was not the same as the F-4 we have in-game. It had a DB 601N powerplant. It was a short lived variant, but still would be nice for those early clashes post-BOB.

I used to know of a very nice speed chart that compared both the E-7 and the F-2 and I believe also the E-4. I wish I could find it right now, but it seems to be lost to me at the moment.

[Denniss]

No, the E-7 had by default the 601A engine, some may have had the 601Aa engine bot none hat the 601N, that's why they had the /N subdesignation/Rüststand for them. 601N production was not very high as DB had a multitude of problems with them and they were requested by other aircraft as well (some Bf 110 recon/FB or Do 215 recons).

The only short-lived production variant of the 109F was the F-1 with just over 200 produced, F-2 had more than 1200 built and F-4 over 1800.

[Megalodon]

It was possible to put gondies on the F-4. Later models, sure, but it WAS possible. Some did have them. Because of that I say include them. Only half the people in AH use 'em anyways.

This must have been before when you were for it ... and now you are against it.

You would make a good politician,

[Krusty]

My mind was changed by a vast collection of evidence showing how little gondolas were ever put on the F-4.


Denniss, I see you're on LEMB but please note there is a serious issue with the commentary about the DB601Aa on that forum -- this is an EXPORT engine. The lowercase a was denoted for supplies meant to be exported. Just because at some point in the war this engine found its way onto an airframe serving far longer than was expected doesn't mean that was the standard issue engine.

It means that somewhere up until December 1942 it had to replace its engine and they didn't have anything else. Many E-7s were war-weary by the time they were withdrawn from the fight. You see the same with Soviets replacing P-40 engines as well, simply because they didn't have an infinite supply and used the older airframes for a longer time than was probably expected.

The flaw in the LEMB discussion about the Aa is assuming it came from the factory that way. The DB601N was the standard from the factory for the E-7. I have no doubt the 601As were installed, but more than likely as a stop-gap at the beginning of the production. I have no doubt once the fight kept dragging on and the F had already taken to the skies that the Es had any old engine crammed in them that could be overhauled, but this shouldn't be taken as a standard setup, nor typical of a frontline fighter in its prime. That's just the second-rate jabos being kept in service as long as they could be.


P.S. Your commentary on the F-2 isn't quite accurate. It was short lived, regardless of the numbers. The time frame in which it served wasn't very long (hence, short lived) before the F-4 was rapidly introduced and replaced them.

[Denniss]

I'll dig into the E-7 again bu I'm pretty sure they were still built with the 601A/Aa and some special models received the 601N.
F-4: not a single F-4 flew with gondola guns. Only one of the 240 built F-4/R1 could use them.

The DB 601Aa was often seen factory-installed in fighter-bomber versions of the Bf 109/110 because if the increased power it offered. I know it was originally meant as export engine but Luftwaffe saw need for a higher powered 601 and could live with the reduced FTH.

[Megalodon]

JG54


Jg52




Oblt. Max-Hellmuth Ostermann May 10 in the vicinity of Chudovo, Novgorod Region., He shot down a fighter, but then his Bf-109F-4/R1 W.Nr.13088 got hit in the radiator. As a result, Ostermann made an emergency landing "on his stomach," the north-west of Chudovo, near the highway to Luban.

Oblt. Max-Hellmuth Ostermann, staffelkapitan 8./JG 54, Bf109F-4/R1 wnr.13125 (черная "1 + ~"), сбит в воздушном бою в районе Любани, тяжелое ранение - выбыл до августа 1942 года. На момент ранения 100 побед, RK.        
Morning of May 12 in a battle near Luban he shot down an I-16 and two F-40, reaching the milestone of 100 victories. However, in the same battle, was shot down in his Bf-109F-4/R1 W.Nr.13125, 12.05.1942

08.06.1942
Lt. Hermann Leiste, 4./JG 54, Bf109F-4/R1 wnr.13131 (белая "7+"), сбит ПВО в районе Кресцы, пропал без вести. 29 побед, DKG.
 "8 June 1942: Leutnant Hermann Leiste of 4./JG 54 listed as missing in Bf 109 F-4/R1 "White 7" (W.Nr. 13131) due to Flak 10 kilometers north of Krestzy at 15:15"

Uffz. Gerhard Raimann of 7./JG54 On 8 May, the tail of his Bf 109F-4/R1,'White 5', WNr. 13171, received a direct hit by anti-aircraft fire. Although a damage assessment estimated the aircraft had been 10 per cent destroyed

He recorded his 10th victory on 13 November Hans-Joachim Heyer was shot down by flak near Ramtzmy on 23 April 1942. He crash-landed his Bf 109 F-4/R1 (W.Nr. 13104) and was injured in the incident.

-24.08.1942 Grigoriy S. Danilov (807 ShAP) Bf.109F-4/R1 W.Nr.13388 Obltn. Erwin Stracnicky Staffelkapitan 2./JG 3 Experte with 35 victories
 
On July 22  Mikhail Dmitrievich Baranov  shot down a Bf.109F-4/R1 flown by Unteroffizier Johann Dowoby of 5./JG 52 who passed away.

Lt Waldemar Semelka,   But then in May - June, he shot down 38 aircraft, and June 22, overcame the barrier of 40 victories. In this May 12 Bf-109F-4/R1 W.Nr.13057 it too was shot down in combat behind enemy lines, but was able to avoid capture Zemelka and safely returned to the squadron

[Devil 505]

The top picture is of a G-2. The small triangle behind the "7" indicates where the fuel filler hatch is. On the F model, the fuel filler hatch is below the canopy.

The good news is that the lower picture is defanately an F.

[Megalodon]

The top picture is of a G-2. The small triangle behind the "7" indicates where the fuel filler hatch is. On the F model, the fuel filler hatch is below the canopy.

The good news is that the lower picture is defanately an F.

 I'll go look for it again it may have been the other plane.

[Bino]

Meanwhile, back at the original post...

Could we have the option to carry a bomb on the Bf-109F?   Thanks!

[Megalodon]

Meanwhile, back at the original post...

sorry no problem