Penn State report

[VonMessa]

Grizz,
I disagree with almost everything that you said with regards to the message sent having been received.  It is very obvious that many will not admit the culpability of certain iconic figures in this series of heinous crimes.  People that will still defend the behavior of iconic individuals and systems have not learned a lesson.  The only way to attempt to fix that is an extremely sever punishment.  If you feel the 10 years I suggested is too much for a punishment, how about the punishment reflect the time frame that the crimes were hushed up?  Would that be fair?

Further, as for killing the town owing to a sports program being shut down, I disagree.  The university will adjust, the money spent on NCAA sports can be spent on intramural and education related activities and the things will proceed forward.  The town will feel a ten year absence of sports, but in the end, it will survive, especially when you consider that the student numbers will remain.

In 2003, PSU was credited with having the second-largest impact on the state economy of any organization, generating an economic effect of over $17 billion on a budget of $2.5 billion, a significant amount of which comes from collegiate sports (just use the word football there)

Yet shutting down the football program for 10 years will not make an economic impact?  What kind of mathematics are you using to come to this conclusion?

What part of the lack of funds generated by the influx of football fans will not sink part of the local economy?  I am sure that there is more than one business that gets most of it's yearly gross during the football season, just like many shore locations do from their summer season.

A 10 year shutdown affects way more folks than the school, the students, or the alumni...

[grizz441]

Grizz,
I disagree with almost everything that you said with regards to the message sent having been received.  It is very obvious that many will not admit the culpability of certain iconic figures in this series of heinous crimes.  

Like who? Since the latest report, there aren't many people defending anyone involved, including Joe Pa.

The only way to attempt to fix that is an extremely sever punishment.

I agree.

If you feel the 10 years I suggested is too much for a punishment, how about the punishment reflect the time frame that the crimes were hushed up?  Would that be fair?

Oh you still want to punish the entire University, nevermind I still disagree.  And no that would not be fair, in fact it would be comparable to a Code of Hummurabi punishment which is archiaic, and unevolved.  What would be fair is to serverly punish the people involved and let the University heal from the pain that a select few number of individuals have created.  Lets not forget who the monster is in all of this.

The university will adjust, the money spent on NCAA sports can be spent on intramural and education related activities and the things will proceed forward.

 
You do realize that the money "spent" on NCAA sports all comes from the football revenues right?

But in the end, it will survive, especially when you consider that the student numbers will remain.

There would be less demand to go to Penn State as result of your sanctions. 

[BreakingBad]

Further, as for killing the town owing to a sports program being shut down, I disagree.  The university will adjust, the money spent on NCAA sports can be spent on intramural and education related activities and the things will proceed forward.  The town will feel a ten year absence of sports, but in the end, it will survive, especially when you consider that the student numbers will remain.

The Penn State football program made a profit of $53 million in 2011.  From what I could tell that money goes to the athletic department which funds a number of varsity sports (volleyball, lacrosse, swimming, track) which are revenue negative.  In other words they don't bring in the revenue that it costs to run the program, and depend on football revenues.

The town I imagine also has a number of businesses that are co-dependent (at least in part) with the football program.  Restaurants on home games, hotels, taxi cab drivers are a few I can think of. 

I imagine that a death sentence for the football program will have some adverse affect on those businesses, probably not catastrophic but they'll feel it.  The varsity sports program and inter-mural sports will suffer greatly, likely requiring massive cutbacks and program closures. Not to mention the lost scholarships for those student-athletes in affected programs, (if the school will not continue to honor them, which they should)

Too bad.  The punishment on the institution has to be severe enough to provide disincentive. 

Maybe some of those administrators will be willing to take partial paycuts to help fund some athletic programs (doubt it).  Maybe some of those programs can hold a few fund raising car washes or seek more alumni donors if they really want to play. 

As far as I'm concerned the real reason for a university is for academics and getting an education.  The sports programs are a secondary consideration.


   

[kilo2]

The Penn State football program made a profit of $53 million in 2011.  From what I could tell that money goes to the athletic department which funds a number of varsity sports (volleyball, lacrosse, swimming, track) which are revenue negative.  In other words they don't bring in the revenue that it costs to run the program, and depend on football revenues.

The town I imagine also has a number of businesses that are co-dependent (at least in part) with the football program.  Restaurants on home games, hotels, taxi cab drivers are a few I can think of. 

I imagine that a death sentence for the football program will have some adverse affect on those businesses, probably not catastrophic but they'll feel it.  The varsity sports program and inter-mural sports will suffer greatly, likely requiring massive cutbacks and program closures. Not to mention the lost scholarships for those student-athletes in affected programs, (if the school will not continue to honor them, which they should)

Too bad.  The punishment on the institution has to be severe enough to provide disincentive. 

Maybe some of those administrators will be willing to take partial paycuts to help fund some athletic programs (doubt it).  Maybe some of those programs can hold a few fund raising car washes or seek more alumni donors if they really want to play. 

As far as I'm concerned the real reason for a university is for academics and getting an education.  The sports programs are a secondary consideration.


   

What are you providing a disincentive for?

[Motherland]

State College isn't just some little town, it's the 12th largest city in Pennsylvania and the State College metropolitan area has a population of 153,990 people; the only reason for it to exist is because of PSU's main campus there. It was all farm land before the university was founded.
As said before, PSU has a huge impact on our state and you can't start chopping away at it just to get some revenge. Punish those responsible.

[BreakingBad]

What are you providing a disincentive for?

Disincentive for other cash cow football programs in fostering a culture of elitism that could allow turning a blind eye to the abuse of helpless child victims.

Disincentive for Penn State not to have instituted an airtight policy in dealing with these egregious transgressions.  

[BreakingBad]

State College isn't just some little town, it's the 12th largest city in Pennsylvania and the State College metropolitan area has a population of 153,990 people; the only reason for it to exist is because of PSU's main campus there. It was all farm land before the university was founded.
As said before, PSU has a huge impact on our state and you can't start chopping away at it just to get some revenge. Punish those responsible.

PSU can survive without all the 'football fun' for a while.  The vast majority of the economy is because of students going to PSU for an education, not because of football.

[grizz441]

The vast majority of the economy is because of students going to PSU for an education, not because of football.

Not really...but okay.

[VonMessa]

Not really...but okay.

You beat me to it on that one.

[BreakingBad]

Not really...but okay.

Well clearly PSU is the main staple of the local economy, not the football program.  There are 44,000 students, 8,800 faculty and staff, all living and purchasing, paying taxes, etc.

Football is what, couple of home games a year.  What does the city do during the other 9 months when football is out of season.  Granted the football program is part of the local economy, but not the mainstay.

I know there are al ot of fans that REALLY REALLY want the football fun to continue, but the institution needs to be taught a lesson and made an example of. 

[Motherland]

Well clearly PSU is the main staple of the local economy, not the football program.  There are 44,000 students, 8,800 faculty and staff, all living and purchasing, paying taxes, etc.

Football is what, couple of home games a year.  What does the city do during the other 9 months when football is out of season.  Granted the football program is part of the local economy, but not the mainstay.

I know there are al ot of fans that REALLY REALLY want the football fun to continue, but the institution needs to be taught a lesson and made an example of. 

The institution didn't do anything. There were individuals within the institution that need to be punished and made an example of for sure, however.

[VonMessa]

Well clearly PSU is the main staple of the local economy, not the football program.  There are 44,000 students, 8,800 faculty and staff, all living and purchasing, paying taxes, etc.

Football is what, couple of home games a year.  What does the city do during the other 9 months when football is out of season.  Granted the football program is part of the local economy, but not the mainstay.

I know there are al ot of fans that REALLY REALLY want the football fun to continue, but the institution needs to be taught a lesson and made an example of. 

Well, there are actually 7 home games, if I am correct.

Each one drawing about 3 times the amount of the total population into town, effectively tripling the amount of revenue generated, not to mention the merchandise, etc sold throughout the year...

As it has been stated, State College was all farmland until PSU came along.

Hamstringing the entire community is not teaching the correct people the correct lesson.

Throwing out the baby with the bath water comes to mind, here.

[Bodhi]

Grizz,
You are being obtuse if you can not see the overwhelming support for an iconic football figure that played a major role in this travesty.  The University Board of Regents still plans to honor his changed contract (which they could fight based upon revelations) even though it is shown he knew and did not follow through on what should have been done.  The University shares responsibility for these crimes equally.  As for punishment, the University, yes, the University, failed those children and as such, the University should be punished.  Removal of all NCAA sports for a substantial period of time is a fair and just response.  Regardless of whether you want to argue that people will suffer, it does not change the fact that the crimes committed warrant the punishment.  

As for the comment regarding Hammurabi's Law, this is no where close to eye for an eye and as such it is not relevant, so why add it?  Oh wait, you were shooting for shock value...      

Money spent on sports....  I am well aware that the football program brought in a substantial sum of money and that money helped fund other programs.  The University also spends significant money to fund sports as well.  But, since those programs should be shut down, that money can be used to fund other things, like a victim's assistance fund or education programs to prevent the abuse.  10 years is a long time, and long enough to ensure that people will not forget.  

As for demand to go to Penn State.... people will always go, and they will meet their max as usual and as many have pointed out those 44,000 students (not including faculty, staff, and associated personnel) will continue to thrive.  Sports related businesses will probably suffer, but that is an unfortunate side effect from criminal actions, not the penalty.

[BreakingBad]

The institution didn't do anything.

Yeah well that's the understatement of the year, but I know what you mean by that sarcasm aside.

Well, there are actually 7 home games, if I am correct.

Each one drawing about 3 times the amount of the total population into town, effectively tripling the amount of revenue generated, not to mention the merchandise, etc sold throughout the year...

As it has been stated, State College was all farmland until PSU came along.

Hamstringing the entire community is not teaching the correct people the correct lesson.

Throwing out the baby with the bath water comes to mind, here.

I don't doubt the football games help the local economy, hotel rooms, taxi's, restaurants, etc during the 7 home games.  It isn't the mainstay of the economy though, which is real estate and services for the 52,000 students and staff that are there for an education or teaching/research.  I imagine the majority of Beaver stadium is filled by locals during the game though, with maybe 10=20% of the seats (10,000-20,000) being true out of towners bringing in outside revenue.

Yes it was all farmland until PSU came along (in 1855), but again the reason for it's existence was and is education, not football.

Penn State is culpable in the sense that they did not have policies in place that would have prevented, or rather, allowed this sort of inaction on the part of administrators and coaches. 

Face it, the football program got so powerful and the university so dependent upon it, that some felt it was more important to preserve it than protect the innocent.  Even worse is it wasn't just a one time lapse, but one allowed to fester creating even more victims.

As far as I'm concerned the football program should get a death sentence of a couple of years at least.  Let the university get back to the basics of education and earn the privilege of having a football again sometime in the future.

[Shuffler]

The institution didn't do anything. There were individuals within the institution that need to be punished and made an example of for sure, however.

The school is a big issue. Not just the individuals here. The whole atmosphere at psu is part of the enabling that went on.