MUNICH FRAME 3 INFRACTIONS

[CAP1]

 PERHAPS A RE-PHRASE......

it states downdraft at 28k. that would insinuate a alt cap, wouldn't it/?

[perdue3]

What about 25k for bombers, all the way through the bomb run? Is that penalty-worthy?

[CAP1]

,

[CAP1]

What about 25k for bombers, all the way through the bomb run? Is that penalty-worthy?

 got film?

[perdue3]

got film?

Of course I do, but you didnt answer my question sir.

[Stampf]

got film?

Why do we need film Cap...when Shamus already stated they made an honest error.  I was there...with Doo...the buffs were over 25K.  No doubt about it, everyone there on both sides saw it.  Just saying.

Infractions/scores...the heck with all that crap.  It's the spirit of the action, and how all members approach it, that matters.  Without the long standing level of integrity shown by the squadrons in FSO, it becomes just another MA melee.

I think the CO's here all embrace this spirit still. At least I do hope so.

[CAP1]

Why do we need film Cap...when Shamus already stated they made an honest error.  I was there...with Doo...the buffs were over 25K.  No doubt about it, everyone there on both sides saw it.  Just saying.

Infractions/scores...the heck with all that crap.  It's the spirit of the action, and how all members approach it, that matters.  Without the long standing level of integrity shown by the squadrons in FSO, it becomes just another MA melee.

I think the CO's here all embrace this spirit still. At least I do hope so.

 the score is secondary to me. the infractions are, but aren't. the co's....as shamus did.....should take responsibility. i don't want to have to subtract from anyones score.......but i will if necessary.
 i appreciate the fact that it was owned up to. a LOT. something will have to be done, and will be. it will be fair.

Of course I do, but you didnt answer my question sir.

 it will be taken care of.

 the reason for asking for film though, is due to possible errors....someone in the beginning of this thread even stated that although they reported bombers above their alt cap, that they were wrong, and the bombers were indeed within their limits.

 

[perdue3]

The problem is this Stampf. Yes, I care about score because I want to win. But, our fun factor was shattered because of this rule infraction. We could not attack and kill the bombers as proficiently as we would've had they have been 23k. This is where the score comes into play. Them being 25k probably saved them 200 points (not stretching at all).

Point is, our fun was cut short because of either ignorance or blatant rule breaking. Either way a penalty is needed and possibly a kind word to all CO's to obey the rules as best they can. I am complaining but I am not being hostile. Just sucks for your fun to be spoiled because of others' stupidity or mischievous behavior. That happened twice to KN this month.

I havent even mentioned my feelings about the no fly zone yet haha.  

[Stampf]

The problem is this Stampf. Yes, I care about score because I want to win. But, our fun factor was shattered because of this rule infraction. We could not attack and kill the bombers as proficiently as we would've had they have been 23k. This is where the score comes into play. Them being 25k probably saved them 200 points (not stretching at all).

Point is, our fun was cut short because of either ignorance or blatant rule breaking. Either way a penalty is needed and possibly a kind word to all CO's to obey the rules as best they can. I am complaining but I am not being hostile. Just sucks for your fun to be spoiled because of others' stupidity or mischievous behavior. That happened twice to KN this month.

I havent even mentioned my feelings about the no fly zone yet haha.  

The winning/losing part to me...is just the outcome of how we conduct our business up there, too me. 

Last night sucked...I couldn't even get my nose up on the bombers.  So I hear you.  Also the early, early attacks and then high tailing it to the 8 line was not cool at all in my opinion.  Never could get to or catch the bombers.  The only bombers we killed were after rearm and we had to fly 75 -100 miles north to get to them.  So we are eye to eye...no worries there.  When its not fun anymore...the game will end.

[CAP1]

The problem is this Stampf. Yes, I care about score because I want to win. But, our fun factor was shattered because of this rule infraction. We could not attack and kill the bombers as proficiently as we would've had they have been 23k. This is where the score comes into play. Them being 25k probably saved them 200 points (not stretching at all).

Point is, our fun was cut short because of either ignorance or blatant rule breaking. Either way a penalty is needed and possibly a kind word to all CO's to obey the rules as best they can. I am complaining but I am not being hostile. Just sucks for your fun to be spoiled because of others' stupidity or mischievous behavior. That happened twice to KN this month.

I havent even mentioned my feelings about the no fly zone yet haha.  

 IF they were 25k, you still had 3k alt advantage......no reason for your fun to have been cut short. improvise, overcome, and adapt.
  
 the no-fly zone was to simulate the fact that the fighters, and bombers in the real life mission this was modeled after wouldn't have been chased all the way home. since we don't have the time to launch from england, fly all the way to munich, and back, i improvised.

The winning/losing part to me...is just the outcome of how we conduct our business up there, too me.  

Last night sucked...I couldn't even get my nose up on the bombers.  So I hear you.  Also the early, early attacks and then high tailing it to the 8 line was not cool at all in my opinion.  Never could get to or catch the bombers.  The only bombers we killed were after rearm and we had to fly 75 -100 miles north to get to them.  So we are eye to eye...no worries there.  When its not fun anymore...the game will end.

 are you saying that there were buffs above 28k alt?

 this will be handled. i think it's time to move on. it seems most had fun, and that's the best i can strive for. i do my best, being a noob at it, and will get better as time goes on.

 EDIT***
if it was shamus's group you saw at 25k, then no film necessary. if it wasn't then i need film to back the claim, or nothing can be done please.

[Stampf]

 are you saying that there were buffs above 28k alt?

How/where are you seeing that?

[ELD66]

The buffs at A49 were at 23k, they looked higher because of the 28k alt cap. So without film submitted to the CM's then it wont count as an infraction.

[CAP1]

How/where are you seeing that?

 you said you couldn't get your nose up to the bombers. that would insinuate that they were higher than your alt cap.

[perdue3]

3k advantage on bombers with escorts co-alt. Not much of an advantage is it. Point is CAP, we didnt plan on them being over 23k which by the way happened to be a rule.

[Stampf]

you said you couldn't get your nose up to the bombers. that would insinuate that they were higher than your alt cap.

Without a long explanation...what Doo said covers it.  A flight of 28k A-8's is nothing but a tasty treat to a flight of 28K Lightnings.  Your only defense is speed.  To get speed, you must trade alt.  When there is not enough alt between the escorts (well flown last night), and the buffs...well...you end up trying to recover back to the buffs at best.


EDIT:  Something you Cap...posted above...I meant to comment on.  Nothing from my point of view is a reflection on, or jab at your role as Event Designer.  Simply comments on the actions we encountered.  In no way should you take anything as an attack on you or your role as CM.