Author Topic: Gun control laws do they work ?  (Read 21718 times)

Offline TonyJoey

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #555 on: August 31, 2012, 09:30:36 PM »
It would affect the total number of murders, but not the rate. If there was 1 murder for every 100 people, you would expect to have 2 murders for a group of 200 people, which is a double of the number, but the exact same rate. You wouldn't expect 4 murders, which would be a double in the rate. Anyway, this is splitting hairs so I'll take the conspiracy Nathan doll.


Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #556 on: August 31, 2012, 10:52:22 PM »
Shooting rabbits with a 12GA..  Guess you didn't eat rabbit stew very often.   :)
 Shotgunning rabbits with Mod or Imp Cilender chokes out 35 yards or so with light bird shot doesn't tear 'em up...also close = headshots...aim at the top of the ears...  :banana:




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Offline bmwgs

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #557 on: August 31, 2012, 10:58:58 PM »


I don't know, that is still like a 24" spread with full choke.  Think I would rather stick to a .22.  Less chance of needing some dental work after some good stew.    :D

Fred
One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine... - From a Soviet Junior Lt's Notebook

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #558 on: September 01, 2012, 12:48:47 AM »
It is just you.

Gun crime rate was not what was being discussed, it was murder rate as a whole.

Thanks for playing, you win you choice of a conspiracy theory Nathan doll or a paranoid Semp watching a cop put his hand on his gun doll.  Tickets can be redeemed at the box office.   :aok

you call me paranoid and yet I am not the one telling everybody to lock the doors when a police officers stops you. 


semp
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 12:57:58 AM by guncrasher »
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline hlbly

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #559 on: September 01, 2012, 03:38:55 AM »
I love the way you change your tune to suit the misguided point you are trying to make at any given time, they are not of the proletariat, as your politicians are not. The vast majority of MP's are from large country piles with a few Knighthoods and letters after their fathers names.

Not one Prime Minister has been of working class, not one US President has been "of the people" including Lincoln who said that. The closest you have come so far is Barrack Obama

The monarchy may be an anathema to you, but it is a symbol of this great country as much as its flag. I have all the admiration for them, especially for the members that put themselves in harms way on the front line, and have done throughout our history. :salute
Look up Harry Truman .  Dwight Eisenhower . To name two that came from humble backgrounds . Lincolns background was fairly humble as well don't understand that one bro .
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 03:41:21 AM by hlbly »

Offline hlbly

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #560 on: September 01, 2012, 04:01:56 AM »
despite their size and technological superiority to they have been made to look stupid in Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan...all those millions (billions?) spent on the military and they get shown up by people most Americans would consider 3rd world peasants

and for what? If I had a family member dead from fighting any of those completely pointless wars i would be supremely disillusioned

Vietnam and Afghanistan especially they should have learned from the lessons of other countries in the past.
How do you figure ? Show me where the military lost one battle in Vietnam ? The Vietnamese infantryman we fought was probably the finest light infantryman the world has ever seen . The product of centuries of armed conflict . Do you remember the "border clash" with the Chinese in the late 70's ? The Vietnamese stopped them old for a protracted period of time . The PLA finally overwhelmed them and drove on to the river that was their objective . The ROE were far different than those followed by our troops in Vietnam . Still Vietnam will always be the only war were the loser won every  battle . The war in Vietnam did point out several weaknesses in our military . A great many of them have been addressed . It didn't point out some that still exist . Example the way we design tanks . Doing incremental improvements . The M60 was basically a continuously improved M26 . We also focus on componets rather than a holistic design . Again you are wrong about the Afghan's and their fighting ability .

Offline hlbly

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #561 on: September 01, 2012, 04:18:16 AM »
fighting to change brutal and ruthless regimes DaveJ says...(oh and don't forget finding those WMDs threatening all of the free world  :) ) not fighting to control the part of the world that produces most of the oil ;]

if it's about stopping horrible dictators and downtrodden people then why don't we ever hear anything on the news about the US getting involved in the nasty little wars in Africa? is it because Africa is poor as f**k?

i guess it just might be
The WMD were there at one point . Not nukes but chemical and biological weapons by the ton . I saw them myself . Saddam played games with the UN commissions sent to disarm him in accordance with the cease fire he signed . I would point you to videos of UN convoys showing up at one gate and Iraqi convoys leaving at another . What is the point . When was the last African attack on NYC ? Iraq was about stopping horrible dictators that threaten US interests . We are not the world police . Africa gets attacked when Africans threaten our interests .  The pirates in East Africa will tell you .

Offline hlbly

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #562 on: September 01, 2012, 04:24:52 AM »
Wow, Zack1234 by Domestos, kills all known bullcrap, dead.


Why is it cultural ? We are able have guns because of the second amendment of the constitution . What was the true intent of the founders for it being in the Bill of Rights ? I once again refer everyone to legal opinions rendered by contemporaries of the Founders . To state that we have guns just because we can . Implies  there was no reason for the second amendment . That is something I am surprised at coming from you two .

Offline zack1234

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #563 on: September 01, 2012, 05:31:53 AM »
Its cultural you like having guns so you have them, this bill of rights to own a gun is nonsense.

There is no bills of rights to own big fat cars with 4x4 drive but you still have them because its exspected. (4X4 are for off road fact) (Guns are for shooting things and crimminals) not to uphold your rights its childish and immature to say that.

Just say I like guns

Like I have said on numerous occassions if I was a Yank I would lots of guns becaue I could, and a bit fat car.

You are not going to be "Minute Men" to defend yourselves from "THEM" who ever you are.

Can I come out of my bunker yet and have those stars gone yet? is the moon still there?

 
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
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Offline coombz

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #564 on: September 01, 2012, 05:49:31 AM »
When was the last African attack on NYC ?

when was the last Iraqi attack on NYC then?

i live in New Zealand, I can recognise sheep when I see them...keep bleating  :aok
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 05:51:57 AM by coombz »
Did you see my dad on dogfights yet?
I'll be seeing you face to face possibly next month.

Offline coombz

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #565 on: September 01, 2012, 05:54:45 AM »
There is no bills of rights to own big fat cars with 4x4 drive but you still have them because its exspected. (4X4 are for off road fact)

i believe it's called the culture of conspicuous consumption :D


Did you see my dad on dogfights yet?
I'll be seeing you face to face possibly next month.

Offline nrshida

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #566 on: September 01, 2012, 07:27:45 AM »
Why is it cultural ? We are able have guns because of the second amendment of the constitution . What was the true intent of the founders for it being in the Bill of Rights ? I once again refer everyone to legal opinions rendered by contemporaries of the Founders . To state that we have guns just because we can . Implies  there was no reason for the second amendment . That is something I am surprised at coming from you two .

I was more commenting on Zack's ability to cut through a lot of waffle with a cojple of bullet points more than your constitition or bill of rights buddy.

Firearms bah, i'm really undecided. On the one hand they interest me greatly, also from the design perspective, on the other they can hurt people and I often find the context morally objectionable.
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #567 on: September 01, 2012, 12:15:43 PM »
Its cultural you like having guns so you have them, this bill of rights to own a gun is nonsense.

There is no bills of rights to own big fat cars with 4x4 drive but you still have them because its exspected. (4X4 are for off road fact) (Guns are for shooting things and crimminals) not to uphold your rights its childish and immature to say that.

Just say I like guns

Like I have said on numerous occassions if I was a Yank I would lots of guns becaue I could, and a bit fat car.

You are not going to be "Minute Men" to defend yourselves from "THEM" who ever you are.

Can I come out of my bunker yet and have those stars gone yet? is the moon still there?

 

Zack, you seem to struggle with concepts...

The U.S. Constitution does not bestow rights on it's citizens. It defines what natural and inalienable rights shall be protected by the Government.

The right to self-defense is a natural right and therefore, an inalienable right. The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld this as an individual's right.

The writers of the Constitution also recognized that the defense of the community and state could not be the sole domain of a standing army. The Army was very small. Thus, cities, towns and even small villages formed militias, consisting of local able-bodied men. Those men would supply their own weapons and a basic load of ammunition. Heavy weapons and additional ammunition, as well as all required supplies, would be furnished by the government (at what ever level the militia represented). The militia members would muster with their rifles, muskets, shotguns and side arms.

The need for militias largely disappeared (more so in the eastern USA) by the early 1900s, being replaced by police and sheriff departments at the local and state level, and the state National Guard. Nonetheless, every single day, armed citizens intervene in crime, and often assist the police when needed. In the years since the Constitution was ratified, firearm technology has evolved from single shot muzzle loaders, to breach loaders, to repeating rifles (bolt and lever actions) and finally semi-auto and full auto weapons. A modern militia would be armed with the latest technology and remain within the intent of the Constitution. Congress overstepped their authority and effectively banned automatic weapons. The current political climate does not support a repeal at this time, but there are suits being contemplated that may have the effect of overturning that ban (based upon recent court decisions). Still, it is very reasonable that modern semi-auto rifles meet the intent of the founders. In the event of a national, state or local emergency, there are plenty of men who could and would answer a call to assist the government. Unlike 200 years ago, there is no organized and sanctioned training. A mistake, in my opinion. I would like to see the government provide firearms training to anyone wanting it for free. The government cannot make that a requirement for ownership, but it could offer less regulation to those who complete the training and maintain qualification with semi-annual training and testing. There is much we can do to reduce accidents that we should do, although more people die in pools than are killed by accidental discharges of firearms.

Getting guns out of the hands of criminals is another, far more challenging problem that will never be truly resolved. Gun laws only work when people obey them, and the criminal, by definition, ignores laws.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #568 on: September 01, 2012, 01:08:40 PM »
natural and inalienable rights

sorry to nitpick but there is no such thing, all "rights" are defined by man. they may be natural in the trivial sense that humans are part of nature, but nature/reality/whatever you want to call it has no concept of ethics.

if rights came from somewhere other than human consensus, there would be no argument over them, it would be pointless.
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What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline zack1234

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Re: Gun control laws do they work ?
« Reply #569 on: September 01, 2012, 01:10:00 PM »
From reading this thread "Them" is the Government :old:
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
The GFC
Pipz lived in the Wilderness near Ontario