Question about score damage points

[Lusche]

Yes, this time it's me having no clue at all. Maybe someone of you folks can enlighten me, though I'm afraid in the end I will have to summon HT or Pyro 


Everyone who's bombing regularly and keeping an eye on the results will have noticed the huge discrepancy between score damage points gained, damage points landing display.
I found that when destroying single, remote objects, displayed landing damage message was  quite proportional to the actually damage required to kill the objects - but the score damage points varied tremendously depending on weapon used.
This also happens with GV.
I did a custom arena test, which reproduced very much my main arena findings:

Killing an SB in a M16 (0.50 cal) - 1,016 score damage points
Doing the same in an M4 with rockets; - 127,744 score damage points.
Both vehicles ended the sortie by a clean landing. No other objects that could have been damaged by the blast were nearby.

Obviously the weapon used had a massive effect on damage score points calculation. The HELP section only tells me "DamagePointsScoredOnObjectsThisSortie * DeathMult" With that, I would expect the amount of damage points being depending only on the object, as a direct function of it's "damage points" required for destruction.

So I want to know - is this effect (bigger weapons giving more score for the same amount of stuff destroyed) actually on purpose? And if yes, how are the damage score points calculated? 

[hitech]

Yes, this time it's me having no clue at all. Maybe someone of you folks can enlighten me, though I'm afraid in the end I will have to summon HT or Pyro 


Everyone who's bombing regularly and keeping an eye on the results will have noticed the huge discrepancy between score damage points gained, damage points landing display.
I found that when destroying single, remote objects, displayed landing damage message was  quite proportional to the actually damage required to kill the objects - but the score damage points varied tremendously depending on weapon used.
This also happens with GV.
I did a custom arena test, which reproduced very much my main arena findings:

Killing an SB in a M16 (0.50 cal) - 1,016 score damage points
Doing the same in an M4 with rockets; - 127,744 score damage points.
Both vehicles ended the sortie by a clean landing. No other objects that could have been damaged by the blast were nearby.

Obviously the weapon used had a massive effect on damage score points calculation. The HELP section only tells me "DamagePointsScoredOnObjectsThisSortie * DeathMult" With that, I would expect the amount of damage points being depending only on the object, as a direct function of it's "damage points" required for destruction.

So I want to know - is this effect (bigger weapons giving more score for the same amount of stuff destroyed) actually on purpose? And if yes, how are the damage score points calculated? 

Just doing a quick look, I think what you are missing is thinking a kill is a kill.

As example with 50 cals you could remove multiple pieces, or 1 bullet head shot kill. With the multiple pieces you would be getting more damage points.

Depending on what you hit with the rocket, you could be destroying almost every piece of the plane before the system killed the pilot. And all that plane damage would go into Damage points.

HiTech

HiTech

[Lusche]

Just doing a quick look, I think what you are missing is thinking a kill is a kill.

As example with 50 cals you could remove multiple pieces, or 1 bullet head shot kill. With the multiple pieces you would be getting more damage points.

Depending on what you hit with the rocket, you could be destroying almost every piece of the plane before the system killed the pilot. And all that plane damage would go into Damage points.

HiTech

HiTech

That are kill points you are thinking of 

I am strictly talking about score damage points (and displayed dmg points at landing) vs objects. The examplary test I mentioned above is a shore battery.
It's a fixed amount of damage that is required to kill the shore battery, but the resulting score damage points differ tremendously (factor 100!) depending on weapon used.

[hitech]

That are kill points you are thinking of 

I am strictly talking about score damage points (and displayed dmg points at landing) vs objects. The examplary test I mentioned above is a shore battery.
It's a fixed amount of damage that is required to kill the shore battery, but the resulting score damage points differ tremendously (factor 100!) depending on weapon used.

Not sure why they would be different, when I looked threw the object damage it, it appears they should be the same.

Ill do some testing when I get a chance.

HiTech

[Lusche]

Just to make sure it's not a kind of custom arena bug, I tested it in LW MA.

I killed an SB with a M-16 and again got 1,016 score points for it.
Then I tried it with a M-18 (HE and AP). I was turreted shortly before I could kill the SB. But despite coming short of applying the required 3.9x1000lbs of damage, I still got 24,266 points of damage score.

More potent weapons clearly give much more score for the same object destroyed. The same is true for bombs. this may also explain why I get about 50k damage displayed when dropping 12 towncenters with 3 500lb bombs each, ~33k damage displayed when i attack 6 town centers with 3 1000lb bombs each - but the score for both attacks is almost identical.

Ill do some testing when I get a chance.

Thank you. 

[icepac]

I just did that today but I didn't notice the points.....just a coincidence that occurred because I spawned in to drive to the city strats complex and got killed by someone in the shore battery.

Sadly, my 2+hour drive to the strats ended up this way before I could shoot much more than a few ack towers.

[Midway]

I just did that today but I didn't notice the points.....just a coincidence that occurred because I spawned in to drive to the city strats complex and got killed by someone in the shore battery.

Sadly, my 2+hour drive to the strats ended up this way before I could shoot much more than a few ack towers.

(Image removed from quote.)

Another reason we need GV spawns into the strats... two hours to end up upside = not much fun.

[kvuo75]

I just did that today but I didn't notice the points.....just a coincidence that occurred because I spawned in to drive to the city strats complex and got killed by someone in the shore battery.

Sadly, my 2+hour drive to the strats ended up this way before I could shoot much more than a few ack towers.

(Image removed from quote.)

icepac:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,339031.msg4470282.html#msg4470282

 

[Chalenge]

Another reason we need GV spawns into the strats... two hours to end up upside = not much fun.

If that ever happens I would like goons with eight live players in FPS mode and bazookas stationed all over the strats.

[icepac]

icepac:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,339031.msg4470282.html#msg4470282

 

Is this some sort of pathetic troll attempt.

If you have any issues with me, take them up in PM.

[hitech]

Found the issue.

But now I am not 100% sure I wish to change, and defiantly not in the middle of a tour, because it has been this way since AH began.

What will be the net effect to game play if we change it?

HiTech

[Lusche]

What will be the net effect to game play if we change it?

My first thought was "a pretty minimal one on overall gameplay"

I think it's making things more 'fair' (I may just lack a better English expression). The bigger the weapon is that's being used on a target, the more it pays off in terms of score points when in my opinion the target should determine the points. Someone dropping a 4k bomb on a hangar will get more points than someone killing it with a well calculated and aimed series of 100kg bombs from a Ki-67. Taking smaller size bombs to kill a target like the City 'hurts' score on many levels: Less damage hit%, much less damage score pts, even when the run was very successful.

I don't think it's a big deal in the end. I just thought "this must be a bug" as it was quite illogical to me. Not forgetting the seemingly irrational non-relation between the "landed damage" message and the actual score points gained.


Another thing coming to my mind: The player's bomber stats would be more meaningful to me, because now I could actually see the amount of damage done to objects, and so compare different players or tours or GV object damage vs bomber object damage. Right now it's impossible because of the inconsistency  

[Karnak]

I think I would prefer the consistence of a hangar kill being a hangar kill regardless of the size of the bomb(s) used.

[Tilt]

Agreed. Reward = result or at least be proportionate.

If its wrong then fundamentally the timing of the fix is irrelevent stuff is optimised by doing the right thing as soon as the opportunity avails .

A fix of this sort makes a future ord perk system more fair IMO.

[tunnelrat]

I think I would prefer the consistence of a hangar kill being a hangar kill regardless of the size of the bomb(s) used.

Agreed.


Also, Lusche... a single cookie (no drones) dropped on TC averaged 6,000 points (displayed on landing) over 6 runs (total of 36,xxx points landed, all TCs were full up, all dropped close to the same point)