German Vehicles and half tracks.

[Rob52240]

Lot's of good stuff in this English documentary on the German Army's cars, trucks and half tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQN66LlIUvY&feature=g-vrec

[Tank-Ace]

SdKfz 251/9 (75mm L'24)
SdKfz 251/10 (37mm L'45)
SdKfz 251/17 (single 20mm FlaK 38)
SdKfz 251/21 (three 20mm Mg151/20's)
SdKfz 251/22 (75mm L'46)



SdKfz 234/2 "Puma" (50mm L'60)
SdKfz 234/4 (75mm L'46)

[Eric19]

gimme my SDKZ-251/22 with the PAK 40 on top and I will be happy I like my m3 with the 75mm but its a little on the light side as far as stopping power goes

[Tank-Ace]

If we had to add just one vehicle's sub-variants, I'd say we go with the SdKfz 251, just because it provides a wider range of weapons, including 2 AA variants.


But if we could only pick, say, 3 to be added, I'd say:

SdKfz 251/22
SdKfz 234/2
SdKfz 251/23

[SmokinLoon]

Variety is the spice of life, no doubt.

The SdKfz 251/9 and /22 would be great in AH.  Both would be easy to add comparatively, and both wold see good usage.

If nothing else, it would expand the ENY scale a bit.   

[Tank-Ace]

Variety is the spice of life, no doubt.

The SdKfz 251/9 and /22 would be great in AH.  Both would be easy to add comparatively, and both wold see good usage.

If nothing else, it would expand the ENY scale a bit.   

Biggest thing thats bugged me is that it goes by 5's for the most part. If it weren't for 2 or 3 aircraft, we might as well just go with a 1-8 ENY scale.

God forbid we but the M8 at ENY 39, or just something higher than the T-34.

[Butcher]

ENY scale is from 5 to 40.... Adding the 251 varients will not expand the ENY system.

L/24 model is frankly useless except for a small town killer - 40 eny easy.
37mm L'45 would be 40 eny - unless it walks up behind a tank at 200 yards its not going to kill anything, 40 eny as well.
Single 20mm would be interesting, I want to say 30 Eny.
Triple 20mm maybe 20ish ENY since the Wirb is I think* 15 eny.

251/22 with L'46 would be interesting to argue, our problem is Panzer F L'43 is rated at 40 eny along with L'24 model. Where does it put the 251/22?

I'd love to see the Puma, but Im afraid it might be lower then 25 eny, based on speed with a pretty good hitting gun, like M-18 which is actually perked.

[Tank-Ace]

ENY scale is from 5 to 40.... Adding the 251 varients will not expand the ENY system.

L/24 model is frankly useless except for a small town killer - 40 eny easy.
37mm L'45 would be 40 eny - unless it walks up behind a tank at 200 yards its not going to kill anything, 40 eny as well.
Single 20mm would be interesting, I want to say 30 Eny.
Triple 20mm maybe 20ish ENY since the Wirb is I think* 15 eny.

251/22 with L'46 would be interesting to argue, our problem is Panzer F L'43 is rated at 40 eny along with L'24 model. Where does it put the 251/22?

I'd love to see the Puma, but Im afraid it might be lower then 25 eny, based on speed with a pretty good hitting gun, like M-18 which is actually perked.

Panzer IV F is 40 ENY? What the hell, HTC? The M8 is ENY 35, but the Panzer IVF is ENY 40. Really, Panzer IV F should be 30 or 35. SdKfz 251/22 should be between ENY 35 and 40 (since it would be the easiest dedicated-AT platform to knock out in the entire game)

[Butcher]

Panzer IV F is 40 ENY? What the hell, HTC? The M8 is ENY 35, but the Panzer IVF is ENY 40. Really, Panzer IV F should be 30 or 35. SdKfz 251/22 should be between ENY 35 and 40 (since it would be the easiest dedicated-AT platform to knock out in the entire game)

M8 has speed, which is a factor the same reason the M18 is 1 perk, extremely fast with a decent gun on it, the ENY is based on play ability and balance. Even at 40 eny the M8 will make no difference in the main arena, however if you take HE rounds, you can get to an airfield in under 4-5 minutes and de-ack it from a ranged positioned, where it takes 20-25 minutes in a Panzer F.

Panzer F is two different panzer Models, one version is Early war (L/24) and second is Medium War (L/43).

You gotta look at it in terms of perks, if a PzF knocks out a PzH he gets 3 perks per kill, you know how fast a tank can rack up perks, if someone gets 9 kills which is 18 perks and lands (at modifier 1.00) he has enough for a panther when its usually 17-18 perks.
You can rack up perks far to easily in ground vehicles, then again the drawback is you can lose them just as fast as well.

In the case of the SdKfz 251/22, I can see it being around or under 30 eny - again in terms of play balance, the Sdkfz is a very SMALL target - with a decent gun on it no less (L/46) and does 32mph, you simply lose the armor and it doesn't carry many shells - its a trade in play balance.

I'm of course guessing, HTC makes the final call on the eny system, but think of what happens if they add the PUMA, it would easily be 20 or 25 eny.

[Rob52240]

lol the arguement over speculation on their ENY before we even get anything new?

[Butcher]

lol the arguement over speculation on their ENY before we even get anything new?

Why not? it will happen... in 2 weeks.

[Rob52240]

Why not? it will happen... in 2 weeks.

Then let's establish some ground rules.  Maybe do as the price is right does and let everyone bid once and the closest one without going over wins.  Now I just hope we don't have some jerk bid 1 ENY and win some fabulous prizes.

[Butcher]

Then let's establish some ground rules.  Maybe do as the price is right does and let everyone bid once and the closest one without going over wins.  Now I just hope we don't have some jerk bid 1 ENY and win some fabulous prizes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLLk0YFcuFk

[Tank-Ace]

M8 has speed, which is a factor the same reason the M18 is 1 perk, extremely fast with a decent gun on it, the ENY is based on play ability and balance. Even at 40 eny the M8 will make no difference in the main arena, however if you take HE rounds, you can get to an airfield in under 4-5 minutes and de-ack it from a ranged positioned, where it takes 20-25 minutes in a Panzer F.

Panzer F is two different panzer Models, one version is Early war (L/24) and second is Medium War (L/43).

You gotta look at it in terms of perks, if a PzF knocks out a PzH he gets 3 perks per kill, you know how fast a tank can rack up perks, if someone gets 9 kills which is 18 perks and lands (at modifier 1.00) he has enough for a panther when its usually 17-18 perks.
You can rack up perks far to easily in ground vehicles, then again the drawback is you can lose them just as fast as well.

In the case of the SdKfz 251/22, I can see it being around or under 30 eny - again in terms of play balance, the Sdkfz is a very SMALL target - with a decent gun on it no less (L/46) and does 32mph, you simply lose the armor and it doesn't carry many shells - its a trade in play balance.

I'm of course guessing, HTC makes the final call on the eny system, but think of what happens if they add the PUMA, it would easily be 20 or 25 eny.

The M8 CAN deack a field, but that doesn't mean they're typically used for that. The issue they bump into is that anything else mounting a cannon firing AP rounds can take it out in 1-2 hits. With the 88's on field, you have a weapon with very high zoom levels, so you can really range in targets quickly.

They can do the job, provided nobody on the other side notices or cares enough to stop them.

Other vehicles just offer a much better combination of ability to take out ack, and to engage enemy vehicles that spawn up.

Is there some reasoning behind it? Yes, I just don't happen to agree with it.


With the SdKfz 251/22, limited field of fire is going to be an issue. Its just as vulnerable from the sides, but it can't quickly bring its gun to bear on a threat from the side. It would be most effective in defensive ambush operations, as would most of the German TD's.

Mobility only matters so much, and 32mph isn't really all that large of an advantage for a vehicle without a turret. The small size and target profile is going to be what counts for more.


If it were me, I'd put the SdKfz 251/22 at ENY 35.



As for the Puma, I fear you're likely right. ENY of 25 or less just has that unplesant feel of truth to it.

[Rob52240]

I'd like the mid range speed/firepwer/armor as it is sorely lacking in the anti aircraft GV category.