Spit16 vs. Flopping Dead Fish

[Nathan60]

No, it doesn't, but trying to say "It is my opinion and why do you insult me based on that." to try to validate themselves after posting it on a public forum is not a rebuttal.  It is an false claim that everybody has opinions and they are all equal.  That is false.  If your opinion is wrong, it is wrong.  If you don't want your opinion to be commented on, don't post it on a public forum.

It is not my fault he is wrong, stated his wrong "opinion" in a public place and is thin skinned.  I had every right to post a correction.  We don't need that kind of misinformation being perpetuated.

How is it misinformation to have something SEEM to behave one way, I dont think you have a grasp of what an opinion truly is. You have yet, to actually  post your facts as proof  you just said some stuff as if you are the only authority on it. Until I see some pictures,  graphs or  manuscripts backing you up I'm just  gonna say your blowing hot air, and trying to be knowit all on bombasity alone.

[SmokinLoon]

BS. 

ack-ack

He is correct.  Put 1k ord on it and see which fighters the Spit16 can out climb to 10 k and which fighters it is faster than.  You'd be surprised at what aircraft it is faster than while it is heavy and they are light.  Spit V?  F6F?  P47D 25/40?  P40's? Zeke's?  F4U-1?  Check 'em out.  Report back.      

[Nathan60]

Moved to above comment as was a continuation of that thought.

[Ack-Ack]

He is correct.  Put 1k ord on it and see which fighters the Spit16 can out climb to 10 k and which fighters it is faster than.  You'd be surprised at what aircraft it is faster than while it is heavy and they are light.  Spit V?  F6F?  P47D 25/40?  P40's? Zeke's?  F4U-1?  Check 'em out.  Report back.      

Fully load a Spitfire XVI like Rob claims and then come duel me while I fly a N1K2.  Then we can both have a laugh after you've been out turned.

ack-ack

[Karnak]

Claim:  The Spitfire Mk XVI and Brewster accelerate almost instantly
Counter claim: They do not.  They merely exist on a spectrum within the planeset of AH.

Data: Acceleration time in seconds for an asortment of aircraft at 150ft ranked best to worst:

150 to 200
7.97: Spitfire Mk XVI
8.13: Spitfire Mk XIV
8.31: Bf109K-4
8.54: La-7
8.63: Ki-84-Ia
9.09: Fw190D-9
9.75: C.205
10.09: P-38L
10.62: Mosquito Mk VI
10.63: A6M5b
10.90: P-51D
11.06: F4U-1D
12.03: Bf110G-2
12.16: Brewster B-239
12.59: Hurricane Mk IIc
13.78: P-40N
NA.NA: Me262A-1

200 to 250
11.59: Bf109K-4
11.71: Spitfire Mk XIV
11.91: La-7
11.91: Spitfire Mk XVI
12.56: Ki-84-Ia
12.66: Fw190D-9
14.60: P-38L
14.90: P-51D
15.12: C.205
15.15: Mosquito Mk VI
15.66: Me262A-1
15.72: F4U-1D
19.00: Bf110G-2
19.62: A6M5b
21.63: P-40N
24.09: Brewster B-239
26.87: Hurricane Mk IIc

250 to 300
16.44: Me262A-1
17.87: La-7
18.65: Bf109K-4
19.47: Spitfire Mk XIV
19.96: Fw190D-9
21.59: Spitfire Mk XVI
22.47: Ki-84-Ia
23.60: P-51D
25.06: Mosquito Mk VI
25.44: F4U-1D
26.03: P-38L
30.63: C.205
42.15: Bf110G-2
54.97: P-40N
NA.NA: A6M5b
NA.NA: Brewster B-239
NA.NA: Hurricane Mk IIc

300 to 350
19.28: Me262A-1
35.13: La-7
42.16: Fw190D-9
42.90: Bf109K-4
55.25: P-51D
56.60: Spitfire Mk XIV
82.12: F4U-1D
84.66: Mosquito Mk VI
NA.NA: Spitfire Mk XVI
NA.NA: Ki-84-Ia
NA.NA: P-38L
NA.NA: C.205
NA.NA: Bf110G-2
NA.NA: P-40N
NA.NA: A6M5b
NA.NA: Brewster B-239
NA.NA: Hurricane Mk IIc

350 to 400
25.32: Me262A-1
NA.NA: La-7
NA.NA: Fw190D-9
NA.NA: Bf109K-4
NA.NA: P-51D
NA.NA: Spitfire Mk XIV
NA.NA: F4U-1D
NA.NA: Mosquito Mk VI
NA.NA: Spitfire Mk XVI
NA.NA: Ki-84-Ia
NA.NA: P-38L
NA.NA: C.205
NA.NA: Bf110G-2
NA.NA: P-40N
NA.NA: A6M5b
NA.NA: Brewster B-239
NA.NA: Hurricane Mk IIc

Conclusion: While the Spitfire Mk XVI has very good acceleration, being the best accelerator from 150 to 200, it does not perform radically better than the other short ranged interceptors.  The Brewster B-239 is a poor accelerator.

[Nathan60]

source?

[Karnak]

source?

A stopwatch and testing.

The discussion was not about the real aircraft's performance.  It was about how they perform in the game.

[Nathan60]

A stopwatch and testing.

The discussion was not about the real aircraft's performance.  It was about how they perform in the game.

So in order to  verify your data I would have to conduct these same tests in the blind? Did you film so I could possibly watch those to collabirate?

[Karnak]

Sorry, I don't have much hard drive space so I don't normally film.  Ancient computer I fear.

If you wanted you could spot check by picking random tests.  I each case the aircraft was clean and carrying fuel for as close to 30 minutes as I could get, P-51D had 50% and the Spitfire Mk XVI had 100% for example.  WEP was used if the aircraft had WEP.


The reason I respond to claims like the Spitfire Mk XVI and Brewster accelerating faster than they should is because players hear this in game.  If they get caught by a Brewster it is because they misjudged its E state, but because of the constant complaints in the community about the Brewster's acceleration they think "BS mismodeled easymode crap that got me killed." rather than the much more productive "Damn, that Brewster caught me.  I must have badly misjudged his E state.  I need to get better at judging E of other aircraft."  Obviously the Spitfire Mk XVI is an excellent acceleration, but we all know that.  These numbers put it in context though and show that good as it is, it is not way out there on its own.

[Nathan60]

Sorry, I don't have much hard drive space so I don't normally film.  Ancient computer I fear.

If you wanted you could spot check by picking random tests.  I each case the aircraft was clean and carrying fuel for as close to 30 minutes as I could get, P-51D had 50% and the Spitfire Mk XVI had 100% for example.  WEP was used if the aircraft had WEP.


The reason I respond to claims like the Spitfire Mk XVI and Brewster accelerating faster than they should is because players hear this in game.  If they get caught by a Brewster it is because they misjudged its E state, but because of the constant complaints in the community about the Brewster's acceleration they think "BS mismodeled easymode crap that got me killed." rather than the much more productive "Damn, that Brewster caught me.  I must have badly misjudged his E state.  I need to get better at judging E of other aircraft."  Obviously the Spitfire Mk XVI is an excellent acceleration, but we all know that.  These numbers put it in context though and show that good as it is, it is not way out there on its own.

The brew is  a monster  at holding e.

[Karnak]

The brew is  a monster  at holding e.

I can test that too as a deceleration test.  I am not going to due a full round on all of those, but if you have any aircraft you want it compared to I can toss those in as well.

Probably do power on and power off decelerations from 450 or so down to 300.

[Nathan60]

I can test that too as a deceleration test.  I am not going to due a full round on all of those, but if you have any aircraft you want it compared to I can toss those in as well.

Probably do power on and power off decelerations from 450 or so down to 300.

Try it against the dora .

[Wmaker]

The brew is  a monster  at holding e.

You confuse maneuverability and flat shooting guns with "holding e".

[Rob52240]

BS. 

ack-ack

B true.  Fighters is a generalization referring to everything that comes out of a fighter hanger.  I'm not saying it will out perform a 109 while heavy but a P-38 would be no problem most of the time.

[Nathan60]

You confuse maneuverability and flat shooting guns with "holding e".

They are completely different things ,  When I dive in on a brew  who bereaks  down and turns then climbs back up on my  6  closing distance thats called holding e. Turning radius  and rate  as well alls roll can be termed manurebility, and why would the  guns in a brew be flatter shooting then a pony?