Spit16 vs. Flopping Dead Fish

[Karnak]

450-400 power on
47.56: Fw190D-9
7.56: Brewster

400-350 power on
NA.NA: Fw190D-9
11.84: Brewster

350-300 power on
NA.NA: Fw190D-9
29.53: Brewster

450-400 power off
6.69: Fw190D-9
3.51: Brewster

400-350 power off
7.44: Fw190D-9
5.18: Brewster

350-300 power off
8.38: Fw190D-9
5.62: Brewster

300-250 power off
9.47: Fw190D-9
6.87: Brewster

250-200 power off
10.41: Fw190D-9
8.31: Brewster

200-150 power off
10.43: Fw190D-9
9.50: Brewster

Fw190D-9 retains energy much better than the Brewster.

[Nathan60]

So let it be known its impossible  for  a brewster to  catch a dora that dives down to it   then on climb out  have the Brew  make his break tun  onto the doras  6 then climb closing distance( unless the dora is doing 200 and the Brew is at 400 which if a dora dives is really improbable) IsSo if anyone gets film of this please post in the bugs  section.

[Chungo63]

The Great Karnak......... It's still an opinion.......right, wrong or indifferent...... it's his opinion and he's entitled to it........ You may disagree, even present facts to change his opinion, but in the end it's still an opinion.......

I see you have issues on being wrong............

[Karnak]

So let it be known its impossible  for  a brewster to  catch a dora that dives down to it   then on climb out  have the Brew  make his break tun  onto the doras  6 then climb closing distance( unless the dora is doing 200 and the Brew is at 400 which if a dora dives is really improbable) IsSo if anyone gets film of this please post in the bugs  section.

Basically, yes.

The Great Karnak......... It's still an opinion.......right, wrong or indifferent...... it's his opinion and he's entitled to it........ You may disagree, even present facts to change his opinion, but in the end it's still an opinion.......

I see you have issues on being wrong............

You have problems with reasoning.  You might want to take some classes to assist you with that problem.

[Wmaker]

They are completely different things ,  

They indeed are different things. But based on your argument you are confusing the two when your are observing what an opposing Brewster is doing while flying against it.

[Nathan60]

They indeed are different things. But based on your argument you are confusing the two when your are observing what an opposing Brewster is doing while flying against it.

OK please tell me per my observations  where I am confusing  maneuverability and the inertia  held by the a/c? To be clear  my point is  you dive the brew breaks down and turns ,  You pass the brew about co alt  after dive and begin a climb  back up[(but not to sharp)  the brew  continues his break   until he has turned back to you  and  begins his  climb and actually succeeds in closing distance. I saw that is maintaining E that he gathered during his downward break but  maintained it through the turn and  eventual climb. That's  E management not manurverability. IMHO Then again I really dont care If Karnak took the time to verify  then Ill accept  his findings but at this point you just want to argue semantics. Im not even sure you got the rigth guy's 'obsevations'

[coombz]

this is all anecdotal unless you provide film

I doubt you will do that though

[Nathan60]

this is all anecdotal unless you provide film

I doubt you will do that though

You talking to me?use smaller words

[Wmaker]

OK please tell me per my observations  where I am confusing  maneuverability and the inertia  held by the a/c? To be clear  my point is  you dive the brew breaks down and turns ,  You pass the brew about co alt  after dive and begin a climb  back up[(but not to sharp)  the brew  continues his break   until he has turned back to you  and  begins his  climb and actually succeeds in closing distance. I saw that is maintaining E that he gathered during his downward break but  maintained it through the turn and  eventual climb. That's  E management not manurverability. IMHO Then again I really dont care If Karnak took the time to verify  then Ill accept  his findings but at this point you just want to argue semantics. Im not even sure you got the rigth guy's 'obsevations'

For example, more maneuverable/pursuing aircraft can cut a corner on you as you are maneuvering and therefore it needs to travel a shorter distance than you in order to stay in a position where that particular aircraft/pilot desires to be. As far as the guns go, .50cal can be fired to fairly long distances accurately so the aircraft you are flying can be already clearly out running the Brewster but your plane isn't able to out run the .50cal projectiles. Also, from your posts it is fairly clear that you could have been clearly underestimating the e-state of the Brewster.

The above combination obviously causes an illusion where you think Brewster maintains and gathers E faster than you think it should while it is actually the above factors at work.

The definition of "E" here is, as I understand it, kinetic energy+potential energy. At mid altitudes, Brewster is the slowest fighter in the game with the I-16. That alone tells it is hardly an "E machine" of any sort since it can only sustain very low airspeeds.

These claims generally come from the fact that even a short time with guns on ones six can feel like an eternity.

If you think something is wrong, post a film about it.

[bustr]

Two things I'm curious about.

1. - Does your differing internet lag states effect the communicated E states and speeds between yourself and your con, like the differences in your apparent positions versus real positions just befor you get a collision message? If I am not mistaken isn't there an attempt by the game to try and even your states out a tad by introducing some delay. So in some cases our con may see us flying slower than you see ourself, while you perceive the con flying at unrealistics speeds(not warping)?

2. - When you accelerate from a low E state to 275 ta or decellerate down from a high E state to 275 ta in the game. Is your ability to manuver at 275 ta the same in terms of whatever function holds your E state bank account? Are the potentials of the two speeds the same\different via real phsics or programaticly?

[ink]

the Brew is an relatively easy plane to kill, even with a good stick behind it....

I guess you can say thats my opinion.....

recently doin my stats  I have 107 kills on it..... it has  57 kills on me,one month I have 13 kills on it, it had 2 on me....

incidentally I have 52 kills in it with 26 deaths.......

[Nathan60]

For example, more maneuverable/pursuing aircraft can cut a corner on you as you are maneuvering and therefore it needs to travel a shorter distance than you in order to stay in a position where that particular aircraft/pilot desires to be. As far as the guns go, .50cal can be fired to fairly long distances accurately so the aircraft you are flying can be already clearly out running the Brewster but your plane isn't able to out run the .50cal projectiles. Also, from your posts it is fairly clear that you could have been clearly underestimating the e-state of the Brewster.

The above combination obviously causes an illusion where you think Brewster maintains and gathers E faster than you think it should while it is actually the above factors at work.

The definition of "E" here is, as I understand it, kinetic energy+potential energy. At mid altitudes, Brewster is the slowest fighter in the game with the I-16. That alone tells it is hardly an "E machine" of any sort since it can only sustain very low airspeeds.

These claims generally come from the fact that even a short time with guns on ones six can feel like an eternity.

If you think something is wrong, post a film about it.

You clearly are not understanding,if I dive in on a brew who breaks down and away completeing  a almost 90 degress turn  then comibng back(another 90 degress and chasing down my now climbing Dora(that has been going straight lne the whole time thats  e management on his part not manureability Im not saying I am coing in witha  tone difference of smash  maybe only 100k more.. I had film on my old computer, That why I for  anybody that films something like film it to post  it and since it is impossible per Karnaks times  we will know somehting is fishy

To be clear I rarley run into this myself  once or twice the whole time ive played but everytime there are many brews up someone comes over vox with this complain I am merley seeking a resolution,  ansd since Karnak was kind enough to establish where the  Brew is in realtion to the dora next time smeone gets it on film  we can analyze it to see if the  Brew Is closing the distance as many claim.

[bustr]

I keep hearing variations of this complaint about the Brewster and the A6m from players during the normal VOX chatter in furballs and base CAPS. I have had moments of seeing variations of the Brewster and A6m's seemingly phenominal zoom climb and E retention in dives past 400 TA chasing me and during my WEP powered climb out after missing the shot at 400+- TA.

Thats why I asked the questions concerning what I see in my cockpit for speed versus what the con sees as his speed and mine realtive to his. Neither a Brewster or A6m pilot would waste the effort in climbing or diving with a superior speed and WEP'd ride if he didn't see from his cockpit that he had a fair chance of succeeding. I've flown both and didn't bother with being roped or compressing in dives that were not to my advantage in those aircraft. And I've gotten angry PM's about my magic ride or even hacking the game. I fly both infrequently, maybe the last time a year ago. We don't hear complaints like this for the I16 even though it's in the same lower performance envelope with the Brewster and A6m or even worse.

I'm not sure short of asking everyone you know in the game to start filming every sorte for the conceivable future. Will any of these complaints by so many be possibly sorted out just like being able to show films of how collisions work. All of us are aware of the complaints. This seems an honest candidate for some real mythbusting testing in game versus flight mechanics theory in this forum. After all it's a computer program which takes it's marching orders from what it's been fed by the programer. Not a kite we are loosing our lives in fighting a war.

Management has always responded positively to honest efforts to help the game "if" a problem exists. You cannot prove a problem exists in a computer program by diagraming theory. You have to test the program for output against the numerous similar user complaints. In the end it could be a simple mass user misunderstanding of the program. Or, with so many similar user complaints the program might have a problem.

Don't discount the user's realtime game program function complaints versus their usual complaining over how the game program is played. That is the mistake in this situation by those dismissing the complainers.

[Karnak]

bustr,

It shouldn't do that.  If it is going 400mph, it should show as 400mph on both computers, there should just be a bit of a difference in position and when it starts and stops a maneuver.

[Wmaker]

You clearly are not understanding,if I dive in on a brew who breaks down and away completeing  a almost 90 degress turn  then comibng back(another 90 degress and chasing down my now climbing Dora

I understand completely as one of the things I mentioned was gross misjudgement of relative E-states. That's what obviously has happened here or your perception of the whole situation is badly in accurate. I suspect that it's a little bit of both.

I had film on my old computer, That why I for  anybody that films something like film it to post  it and since it is impossible per Karnaks times  we will know somehting is fishy

I can't quite make out your sentence here. But yeh, film or it didn't happen and all that.

To be clear I rarley run into this myself  once or twice the whole time ive played but everytime there are many brews up someone comes over vox with this complain I am merley seeking a resolution,

People complain, that's a fact of life. One of the reasons why people complain is that they get out done and they don't like the idea that someone is better than them and therefore they seek other reasons for the not-so-victorious outcome.

 ansd since Karnak was kind enough to establish where the  Brew is in realtion to the dora next time smeone gets it on film  we can analyze it to see if the  Brew Is closing the distance as many claim.

I'd say that with the amount of data visible in the film viewer (not too much) and with the amount of variables at play (like the weight of the opposing plane at the time of the "incident") there's very little that can be gotten out of a single film. Films from both parties would of course remedy the unknown weight issue but still, the best way is to test the plane offline against known primary source data of the said plane.