increasing strat cargo "less 4 minutes downtime"

[Traveler]

I'll do 2 also, for the same reasons.

Man Fugi, it seems you argue against everything. Are you a Lawyer? 

No, he gets his panites in a knot because everyone is not playing the game the way he want's them to play.

[The Fugitive]

No, he gets his panites in a knot because everyone is not playing the game the way he want's them to play.

I don't have a problem with how ANYBODY plays as long as they don't "bastardize" the game by cutting corners and "gaming the game".

Here's a simple analogy for you to follow, or maybe not. Say a players figures out how to make his spit16 fly like a UFO    Then he shows his squad how to do it. So now there are a bunch of guys doing it, and there is no counter for it. Is it fun for everyone else? Is it fair for everyone else? I'm sure the guys in the spits are having a blast, but its hurting play for everyone else. Then what happens when word gets out on how it's done, now EVERYONE is doing it. Wouldn't that be fun!

Hordes are the same thing. One bunch figure out how to roll a base, and then others learn how to do it. Now you have a bunch of guys rolling bases. There is no real counter for it, you can't have 30+ guys sitting in the tower waiting for someone to call out a siting, you can't expect guys to spend what is suppose to be there "play time" doing nothing but running from base to base trying to keep ords porked along a front.

The strat changes were made to allow a certain segment of players to do what they like and have it worth their time to do it. There is a counter to it, and that is re-supply. As long as there is balance the game is fun for everyone. Once that balance is lost those one side has fun at the expense of the other. 

[Biggamer]

It takes 3 people to resup a Town fast as the Enemy team can kill it... imho i dont think the factorys should be the same although i think 10 minutes is to much 4 mins is a bit low 5 mins would be good

[Hazard69]

I agree on changing the way the resupply system works too. IMHO all your dropped supplies ought to given first to the nearest damaged building and only after that building is repaired should any excess be passed on to the neighbouring buildings.

For e.g. Im a M# driving to resupply a field with its dar, ammo and barracks killed. I want to resupply the radar or ammo bunker so I drop my supplies near that particular structure. It ought to be fully repaired before my precious supplies are wasted on barracks and other stuff.

I think itd be a pretty simplistic system (closest objec first) where u would know exactly what you just supplied. Plus it people would stop running supplies once the 'essentials' were up, which again can be done within the 3.75 perk limit.

[Traveler]

I don't have a problem with how ANYBODY plays as long as they don't "bastardize" the game by cutting corners and "gaming the game".

Here's a simple analogy for you to follow, or maybe not. Say a players figures out how to make his spit16 fly like a UFO    Then he shows his squad how to do it. So now there are a bunch of guys doing it, and there is no counter for it. Is it fun for everyone else? Is it fair for everyone else? I'm sure the guys in the spits are having a blast, but its hurting play for everyone else. Then what happens when word gets out on how it's done, now EVERYONE is doing it. Wouldn't that be fun!

Hordes are the same thing. One bunch figure out how to roll a base, and then others learn how to do it. Now you have a bunch of guys rolling bases. There is no real counter for it, you can't have 30+ guys sitting in the tower waiting for someone to call out a siting, you can't expect guys to spend what is suppose to be there "play time" doing nothing but running from base to base trying to keep ords porked along a front.

The strat changes were made to allow a certain segment of players to do what they like and have it worth their time to do it. There is a counter to it, and that is re-supply. As long as there is balance the game is fun for everyone. Once that balance is lost those one side has fun at the expense of the other. 

The issue I have with your example is your contention that when any number of players organize and attack a base you label it a horde.    I label it an organized coordinated attack.  Which is pretty hard to counter also.  When the 113th hits a base the six of us shut it down and kill their cap and pretty much get the town close to white flag.  Are the six of us a horde?  I’ve also witnessed you arriving at a base,  one that the 113th was defending at,  Just behind the 15 plane horde.  I have the film.  I shot you down twice.
So when I see you rail on about game play and how the horde is gaming the game.  I can only think of the pot calling the kettle black.

I guess it's a horde unless your part of it.

[The Fugitive]

The issue I have with your example is your contention that when any number of players organize and attack a base you label it a horde.    I label it an organized coordinated attack.  Which is pretty hard to counter also.  When the 113th hits a base the six of us shut it down and kill their cap and pretty much get the town close to white flag.  Are the six of us a horde?  I’ve also witnessed you arriving at a base,  one that the 113th was defending at,  Just behind the 15 plane horde.  I have the film.  I shot you down twice.
So when I see you rail on about game play and how the horde is gaming the game.  I can only think of the pot calling the kettle black.

I guess it's a horde unless your part of it.

An organized attack would be fighters both heavy and light, buffs, and troops either GV or goon, numbering in the 20-25 player area. They would have assigned targets and mission parameters to accomplish.

A horde is a group of 25 or more all flying the latest "monsters" more often than not cannon birds, and more often than not NOE. Their mission is "drop anything that is up and vulch the field until the goon drops".

I actually respect the 113th. You guys at least do missions with out hordes. If I have any complaint about how you guys go about it it is that most of the time it's the "mission first" fight if we are still alive. In stead of fighting the couple of guys trying to defend your guys would rather make 6 runs on the ack than fight off the defenders. I remember one night when I was flying with the Hell Hawks we defended a base against your squads attack and eventually pushed you guys back and captured the base you were using.  It was a fun few hours with some great fights.

I checked back over a year and you have no kills on me so maybe if your memory is faulty on that point it may be faulty on on the mission that you say I was in a horde. Even so, I do fly "in the horde" from time to time. After flying "against" the horde 15 or 20 times I like to kick back and fly with one. I last longer and don't get as frustrated. Once I get mellowed out again I'll go back against the horde. It's pretty much the only fights around, so I take what I can get.

The horde isn't the only missions running.....yet, but it is getting there. Hordes take no skill, only numbers, and as long as you have numbers, it can't be stopped. Maybe I'll switch to Knights this weekend and you guys can show me how to stop the horde. I'm not to bad in a P38.

[Traveler]

An organized attack would be fighters both heavy and light, buffs, and troops either GV or goon, numbering in the 20-25 player area. They would have assigned targets and mission parameters to accomplish.

A horde is a group of 25 or more all flying the latest "monsters" more often than not cannon birds, and more often than not NOE. Their mission is "drop anything that is up and vulch the field until the goon drops".

I actually respect the 113th. You guys at least do missions with out hordes. If I have any complaint about how you guys go about it it is that most of the time it's the "mission first" fight if we are still alive. In stead of fighting the couple of guys trying to defend your guys would rather make 6 runs on the ack than fight off the defenders. I remember one night when I was flying with the Hell Hawks we defended a base against your squads attack and eventually pushed you guys back and captured the base you were using.  It was a fun few hours with some great fights.

I checked back over a year and you have no kills on me so maybe if your memory is faulty on that point it may be faulty on on the mission that you say I was in a horde. Even so, I do fly "in the horde" from time to time. After flying "against" the horde 15 or 20 times I like to kick back and fly with one. I last longer and don't get as frustrated. Once I get mellowed out again I'll go back against the horde. It's pretty much the only fights around, so I take what I can get.

The horde isn't the only missions running.....yet, but it is getting there. Hordes take no skill, only numbers, and as long as you have numbers, it can't be stopped. Maybe I'll switch to Knights this weekend and you guys can show me how to stop the horde. I'm not to bad in a P38.

We have a specific order of attack at each type of base and we prefer to kill the field ack to prevent the defenders from running back into the ack for protection.  Most of the initial damage we take is from ack, not enemy fighters.  However, because of changes in the strat game and object down times, a change in strategy is in the works.   I'm pretty sure the film we have of you is still on our wiki page , and it may have been my wingman, Gunston or perhaps Skillet, we fight as winged pairs, either three on one or two on one.  We don't fight fair.  We don't change sides , we started out as Knights and have always remained Knights.  Anyone and everyone is welcome to wing up, for a flight or a night.  We keep the chatter professional and family friendly on Vox 113.  We do fly with other units that do not always practice our disciplines.  We attempt to lead by example with  Vox discipline, good formation flying, assigned primary and secondary targets.  A loose chain of command that puts the mission and squad ahead of the fight.  But our primary goal is to have fun.    We recognize that our way of game play is not for everyone  and that some only want to dog fight or fly the most umber ride and will never understand why we fly from sectors away and climb to 22K.  They want to take off fly a few miles, climb a few thousand feet and engage  , if they find  themselves in the tower they just reup  and repeat, and that’s great.   What we don’t do is rant and rave on the boards for how people are gaming the game because they fly in large numbers, pick or ho or whatever  way they play.   It may be just my perception, but it appears  to me that many  of the  posts I see of yours is a condemnation  of how other’s are playing the game, they just don’t play the way you want or expect them to. 

[The Fugitive]

We have a specific order of attack at each type of base and we prefer to kill the field ack to prevent the defenders from running back into the ack for protection.  Most of the initial damage we take is from ack, not enemy fighters.  However, because of changes in the strat game and object down times, a change in strategy is in the works.   I'm pretty sure the film we have of you is still on our wiki page , and it may have been my wingman, Gunston or perhaps Skillet, we fight as winged pairs, either three on one or two on one.  We don't fight fair.  We don't change sides , we started out as Knights and have always remained Knights.  Anyone and everyone is welcome to wing up, for a flight or a night.  We keep the chatter professional and family friendly on Vox 113.  We do fly with other units that do not always practice our disciplines.  We attempt to lead by example with  Vox discipline, good formation flying, assigned primary and secondary targets.  A loose chain of command that puts the mission and squad ahead of the fight.  But our primary goal is to have fun.    We recognize that our way of game play is not for everyone  and that some only want to dog fight or fly the most umber ride and will never understand why we fly from sectors away and climb to 22K.  They want to take off fly a few miles, climb a few thousand feet and engage  , if they find  themselves in the tower they just reup  and repeat, and that’s great.   What we don’t do is rant and rave on the boards for how people are gaming the game because they fly in large numbers, pick or ho or whatever  way they play.   It may be just my perception, but it appears  to me that many  of the  posts I see of yours is a condemnation  of how other’s are playing the game, they just don’t play the way you want or expect them to. 

As I have said many times before, I couldn't care less how anyone play UNLESS it is play that is detrimental to others play. I believe that hordes take away the ability of many players to enjoy the game. HO's and spawn camping is the same though on a much smaller scale. There is a counter to HOers, as well as spawn campers, but there isn't one for hordes.

While your style of play is far to strict for some, it is perfect for others. But even so, your style doesn't stop others from playing "their" game either. Keeping your focus on hitting your assigned ack makes it easier for a defender to drop you. Your not giving much of a fight, but at least in most cases people know your guys are coming back and when the "objectives" are for filled you guys will fight.

Hordes are even more predictable. Once spotted they will roll in like a horde of locust and destroy everything. Capture the base or not it is now just rubble. Defenders can resupply it, but most likely the horde has already moved on. If they don't capture in the first pass, they move off because they can't fight for the base.

NOEs became so common place that it became "detrimental to game play" and HTC made changes to slow it down. For a while there, it was the ONLY mission run, and the ONLY way bases were taken. Hordes are becoming the next best thing in the way to take bases. It's how all the cool kids are grabbing bases. 

[Traveler]

As I have said many times before, I couldn't care less how anyone play UNLESS it is play that is detrimental to others play. I believe that hordes take away the ability of many players to enjoy the game. HO's and spawn camping is the same though on a much smaller scale. There is a counter to HOers, as well as spawn campers, but there isn't one for hordes.

This is my last response on this because it’s pretty obvious to me that you don’t get it.   “As I have said many times before, I couldn't care less how anyone play UNLESS it is play that is detrimental to others play”  and who determines if someone’s play is detrimental to other’s Play?  You?  And that’s my point.   Also, the HO was part of the US Army Air Corps.  Training during WWII.  My dad flew P47’s and later P51’s out of England.  He was trained to turn into an enemy aircraft that he had to climb to ,  He killed a 109 that way,  He also was credited with 110,  He told me they were the only two enemy aircraft that he ever saw with no one else already shooting at.  But he was pretty sure he destroyed more train cars than any other pilot.   

[The Fugitive]

This is my last response on this because it’s pretty obvious to me that you don’t get it.   “As I have said many times before, I couldn't care less how anyone play UNLESS it is play that is detrimental to others play”  and who determines if someone’s play is detrimental to other’s Play?  You?  And that’s my point.   Also, the HO was part of the US Army Air Corps.  Training during WWII.  My dad flew P47’s and later P51’s out of England.  He was trained to turn into an enemy aircraft that he had to climb to ,  He killed a 109 that way,  He also was credited with 110,  He told me they were the only two enemy aircraft that he ever saw with no one else already shooting at.  But he was pretty sure he destroyed more train cars than any other pilot.   

Ahhhh so that is where the communication issue is. You think this is a war simulation, where I look at it as a game.

In a war simulation anything goes, screw the enemy. If it take 10 bombs to flatten a city you bring 20. If it takes 2 guys to defeat every single defender, you bring 3 per defender. If you can sneak in the back door and avoid any chance at combat, all the better.

In a game everyone is suppose to have fun with the same realistic chance at winning. For every action, there should be a counter. If there is no counter the game becomes lopsided and out of balance. In the case of hordes it has become THE way to play. Why should HTC spend any time on updating the trains/system, or the strat systems? They are un-important to the horde because they don't need to knock down the opposing players infrastructure. They are just going to flatten everything at the base they are attacking. They don't need to save their own infrastructure because they will be moving off to some other base anyway for their next mission so supplies and such are not needed.

You talk about "....it was in the war", doesn't it tweak you just a little bit everytime you see some dweeb dive bombing a spawn point with lancs?

As for "detrimental to others play", ultimately it is HTC place to call that. I pointed out time after time that the NOEs were getting out of hand and that those "leaders" should try other options. The players could have "fixed" it themselves, but it was the bestest, quickest way to grab a base at the time. Then one weekend someone from HTC logged in to play one sunday and I'm guessing that they got tired of chasing NOE after NOE around the map and Monday we had real big dar circles and dot dar was on the deck.  If hordes continue, some sunday someone from HTC will log in ta have a few flights and they will see 3 hordes avoiding each other grabbing bases as fast as they can to beat the other team. What will we see the Monday after that?   

[icepac]

It only takes six minutes for 5 guys in M3s to bring back up a freshly destroyed HQ on the trinity map.

It takes at least 2 hours to destroy it and return to base on the trinity map.

[kvuo75]

It only takes six minutes for 5 guys in M3s to bring back up a freshly destroyed HQ on the trinity map.

It takes at least 2 hours to destroy it and return to base on the trinity map.

if it stayed down for 3 hours at a time and wasn't resupplyable, nobody would ever have radar.

ahha.. solution!  make it take 200,000+ lbs to kill hq, keep it down for 3 hours.. 

 

[SmokinLoon]

It only takes six minutes for 5 guys in M3s to bring back up a freshly destroyed HQ on the trinity map.

It takes at least 2 hours to destroy it and return to base on the trinity map.

Some maps are 20 minute (rounds trip) flight time for C47's to HQ or strats for resupply and 45 minutes round trip for enemy bombers to bomb said targets.  Rotate 'motate, I'm glad we have what differences in maps that we have considering we have no winter or desert maps.   

[icepac]

I guess the different maps even it out.

[Eric19]

just increase the amount of perks the bombers get for hit the strat..........like say 10-20 perks for like 40 some buildings in a strat target my buffs inbound to strat equals more resuppliers and equals more defenders