What to do about the P-51D scourge?

[coombz]

As a Spit16 dweeb I don't mind the P51s, they are never really a problem unless I have an SA fail So from my selfish viewpoint I say nothing needs to be done

I would however like stick stirring scrubs to be banned from flying the Spixteen  

[bustr]

This is the reason I suggested perking the P51D after it being adjusted to the avgas it really burned and 72Hg when it entered service around June 44. I'm including the spit14, Tempest and K4. The spit14 and Tempest were burning 150 over the continent with the P51D.


Speed at Sea Level
---------------------------------------130 Grade--150 Grade

Spitfire XIV --------------------------359 mph ---366 mph +21 lb
Tempest V ---------------------------372 mph ---386 mph +11 lb
P51D\Mustang III--------------------360 mph ---390 mph 72in\+25 lb <--- possible a similare perk to the Tempest.

Bf109 - K4 ----------------------------------------360mph 1.8 ata

The P51D on 130 has just about the same performance at MA alts as the P51B. The P51B was introduced in late 43 to the ETO on 130 octane with the performance modeled in the MA. The P51D introduced in June 44 flew on 150 octane having higher performance than the 130 octane P51B at MA alts.

Anyone noticed that the P47D-40 runs at 65Hg on WEP. That is the MAP cleared for 150 44-1 fuel for P47's from the D-22 on to the D-40 just after DDay. So our P47 stable is running correct fuel grades for their introduction dates but, not our P51 stable.

A 352FG P51D being fueled with 150. Note the rating on the fuel truck on the ramp between the fore and aft tires.

[Greebo]

Well the LW MA's down so like everyone else I've been flying in the MW MA for the last hour or two. What a blast! Far fewer people doing the "one pass and run away" stuff. The P-51B is enabled there but fewer people were flying them compared to the numbers of Ds in the LW MA. So maybe it is just no one caring so much about their score. Whatever, had more good fights tonight than in the last week or two in the LW MA.

[bj229r]

Last month, the 51D had a k/d of 1.14, same as spit16....which is worse than nearly ALL the commonly flown fighters....it just gets tons more sorties...(V guys, methinks;)

[Lusche]

Last month, the 51D had a k/d of 1.14, same as spit16....which is worse than nearly ALL the commonly flown fighters....

Absolutely not worse than "nearly all the commonly flown fighters". In fact, when looking at the whole year so far the the P-51D is slightly above average in the K/D department (1.13 vs 1.11 for all fighters, 1.07 if we remove the perked rides)




Current AH fighter chart, jan to oct 2012. Missing are only the 5 top perk rides way off the K/D scale.

[bj229r]

Again, I only lo looked in October, but I found I missed the P38L....its radio is far lower than the 51D. Unless you count the G14,, 109E/F,, F6, etc, the 51 is lowest of the common fighters

[Lusche]

Again, I only lo looked in October, but I found I missed the P38L....its radio is far lower than the 51D. Unless you count the G14,, 109E/F,, F6, etc, the 51 is lowest of the common fighters

The average I gave is based on "the common" fighters, as uncommon fighters have much less impact on the average, which is based on all fighter kilsl and deaths. And tour 153 is not much different from the rest of the tours.

[Paladin3]

I am with bustr - even perk the fuel load out version. This is about the science and art of WWII combat, lets get the pony out there where she belongs. Perk it. I'll still fly it and pretty much nothing else.

[Ruah]

after fully reading you post--i started thinking--WHY DO YOU CARE which planes are flown the most..is it you r getting shot down or bombed by the p51d..there are people flying 190's and 109's alot--and even the brewster's alot..you don't see people complaing about them..my mustang gets shot down alot--you don't see me complaining about which planes r shooting me down do u-no.they all shoot me down..but i still up a plane..now if you are talking about people up a mustang just to pick and run thats another story..it's also their $14.95 or $15.95 or $16.95<---i pay) it you don't like it shoot e'm down...hoing, i do it,try not to-but it happens--vulch a runway--have done it,try not to but it happens--it is said that people that pick and run have no real kill--id rather get shot down in a dual wether it be 1v1 2v1 3v1 or a horde than to get picked while try to land or take off.i have vulched--but i try to wait till off the runway.quit complaining and just shoot us mustang guys down--even if u have to chase them all they way back to their base-nuff said

nice fail logic here, and often repeated.  By this extention, we should unperk everything and turn AH2 into 262 online - hay, its my 15 bucks right?

the key to the 51 is, as mentioned earlier, the 2x1k ord option.  This should be limited to dedicated ground pounders AND only if they take attack mode.

[bj229r]

The average I gave is based on "the common" fighters, as uncommon fighters have much less impact on the average, which is based on all fighter kilsl and deaths. And tour 153 is not much different from the rest of the tours.

not sure what I'm missing here---the most common furballer rides all have a better k/d than the 51


Late War Tour 153 Statistics for all planes/vehicles/boats
Plane Name    Kills    Deaths    Kill/Death Ratio
Tiger 2    2970    297    9.97
Me 262    3070    435    7.04
Tempest    1482    236    6.25
Panther G    18658    4098    4.55
Me 163B    949    232    4.07
Tiger I    3033    1047    2.89
F4U-1C    3634    1384    2.62
F4U-4    1594    652    2.44
P-38J    5145    2904    1.77
M4A3(76)W    8421    5015    1.68
P-47-D25    1471    891    1.65
Fw 190D-9    9810    6008    1.63
Sherman VC Firefly    1314    819    1.60
Wirbelwind    17802    11203    1.59
Bf 109K-4    8416    5441    1.55
P-38G    803    532    1.51
Fw 190A-5    2307    1563    1.48
Ar 234    320    217    1.47
Ta 152H    1549    1055    1.47
Ki-84-Ia    5666    3926    1.44
F4U-1A    7017    4938    1.42
T-34/85    32727    23046    1.42
P-51B    2327    1641    1.42
P-47M    3438    2459    1.40
La-7    10693    7855    1.36
Yak-9U    1715    1299    1.32
Hurricane Mk IIC    2756    2102    1.31
P-47-D11    651    502    1.29
Ki-61-I-Tei    892    693    1.29
C.205    2149    1676    1.28
A-20G    4495    3563    1.26
F4F-4    791    632    1.25
Typhoon IB    3904    3165    1.23
Bf 109G-6    1945    1599    1.22
F4U-1    1225    1016    1.20
Mosquito Mk VI    2911    2421    1.20
Fw 190A-8    6273    5375    1.17
M-18    8009    6942    1.15
Spitfire Mk XIV    557    482    1.15
Spitfire Mk XVI    12203    10665    1.14
N1K2    7356    6432    1.14
P-51D    20588    18054    1.14
Bf 109G-14    3011    2671    1.13
Bf 109G-2    1495    1353    1.10
Ostwind    2117    2029    1.04
Bf 109F-4    947    908    1.04
B-29    230    220    1.04
FM2    2363    2428    0.97
Il-2    1438    1538    0.93
La-5FN    604    648    0.93
Spitfire Mk VIII    3380    3746    0.90
C.202    127    141    0.89
A6M5b    3679    4161    0.88
P-40E    104    118    0.87
Spitfire Mk IX    2642    3060    0.86
F6F-5    6315    7453    0.85
P-40F    122    155    0.78
Yak-9T    407    522    0.78
SeaFire    4246    5457    0.78
P-39D    186    239    0.78
Bf 110G-2    3004    3899    0.77
Bf 109E-4    230    304    0.75
Brewster B-239    2255    2991    0.75
Panzer IV F    12183    16363    0.74
Ju 87G-2    472    644    0.73
P-40C    140    196    0.71
P-47-D40    1945    2749    0.71
Fw 190F-8    892    1289    0.69
I-16    305    441    0.69
Panzer IV H    28470    42577    0.67
F4U-1D    5986    9039    0.66
P-40N    309    474    0.65
M-16    1031    1599    0.64
P-38L    4121    6490    0.63
P-47N    1293    2134    0.61
P-39Q    312    521    0.60
Me 410    1654    2838    0.58
Spitfire Mk V    513    918    0.56
A6M3    556    1022    0.54
Hurricane Mk IID    246    459    0.53
Spitfire Mk I    104    198    0.52
Hurricane Mk I    115    235    0.49
A6M2    285    588    0.48
B-25H    1350    3138    0.43
B-17G    5168    12531    0.41
Ju 87D-3    163    427    0.38
T-34/76    2224    5859    0.38
M4A3(75)    1798    4927    0.36
PT Boat    2298    6350    0.36
M-8    726    2093    0.35
B-24J    2764    8519    0.32
B-26B    1891    6246    0.30
Ki-67    250    855    0.29
B5N2    128    510    0.25
Bf 110C-4b    37    155    0.24
LVTA2    429    1821    0.24
Mosquito Mk XVI    48    203    0.24
Lancaster III    3549    15569    0.23
M-3    1449    6767    0.21
TBM-3    338    1592    0.21
SBD-5    96    465    0.21
LVTA4    311    1597    0.19
D3A1    54    288    0.19
Boston III    182    1010    0.18
B-25C    332    2386    0.14
Ju 88    299    2676    0.11
SdKfz 251    32    330    0.10
Jeep    198    2219    0.09
Fi 156    319    3830    0.08
G4M1 Betty    64    796    0.08
C-47A    138    3221    0.04

[ink]

51's are for the most part very easy to kill, on rare occasions you will find someone that is very good in one....even then they are just living a bit longer is all.

here is a film of me fighting 5 51's and 1 spit I am not sure if this shows how easy the 51's are to kill/avoid their HO passes ....or how awesome the 16 is

http://www.mediafire.com/?evbm8mue3bobgja

[titanic3]

51D sucks at stall fighting. Then again, that's my fault for trying to turn with it. I know SirNuke is one of the few 51D pilots that I try to stay away from. He knows how to keep it fast. I just yank the stick hoping some one will turn with me. 

[cobia38]

.

  The P51 is the bread and butter of my kill list, followed by the "mighty" k 4  
 why would i want to see it get perked or nuetered ?

.
 

[SQUAT!]

51D sucks at stall fighting. Then again, that's my fault for trying to turn with it. I know SirNuke is one of the few 51D pilots that I try to stay away from. He knows how to keep it fast. I just yank the stick hoping some one will turn with me. 

The 51 does not suck at stall fighting. It is very maneuverable ( in the right hands ). Not to many people take the time to learn the plane. They just nose down and run. My advise would be FLY A FASTER PLANE. LA7 is faster below 10k as is the dora and k4 and the tempist. i believe at some alts the typhoon is as well.

[Crash Orange]

nice fail logic here, and often repeated.  By this extention, we should unperk everything and turn AH2 into 262 online - hay, its my 15 bucks right?

Comparing a jet aircraft to a prop plane is downright silly.

6 pages of this nonsense and I have yet to see one person articulate any reason why the popularity of the P-51D presents any sort of problem. it was a common plane in the war, it should be a common plane in the MA. If anything, the real problem is the absurd over-usage of exotic planes like the C-Hog, Ta-152 and Me-163 that were extremely rare in the war and had real-life kill totals in the single or low double digits.